PODCAST 14: The Marketing Mindset Episode: an Interview with Emmelie de la Cruz

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Resources we mention in this episode:

Otter app

The Body Keeps Score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk

Emmelie de la Cruz on Instagram

Emmelie’s podcast Sanity and Success

 

Transcript:

Emily Carter  

Hi, I'm Emily and this is from hustle to hell. Yes. The podcast with insights and interviews about entrepreneurship, the culture of work, and how to build a business that thrives with you. You'll walk away from every episode with ways to create more ease, enjoyment and effectiveness in your business. So you can really play by your own rules. Welcome to another episode of from hustle to hell yes. Our guest today is amazing. I'm so excited to share this conversation. Emily de la Cruz is our guest today she is an entrepreneur, author and trainer with one goal to rescue overworked founders from being held hostage by their marketing. After a decade in corporate America working for top tech and consumer brands. She developed her one day cmo intensive to train CEOs and their teams on building intentional marketing strategies and workflows, which we talked a lot about in our interview. And especially that not being held hostage part because it can be so hard to balance the day to day work with getting the word out about what it is that you actually do. Her unapologetic approach to life and business has earned her a highly engaged following on social media features across top publications like Forbes, and the opportunity to work with brands like Staples, Dropbox, Capital One Black Enterprise, and Coca Cola. Emmelie, I'm just so thrilled that you're here to talk with me today. I've been following you for a while. And so I know sort of the backstory and a lot more about you than maybe some of our audience does, who's listening right now? And so maybe we could just start with you giving us like, the two minute download on like, how you started your business and and where you're at right now. So bring us up to speed.


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Oh, well, I love to give my backstory because it's kind of a non traditional entrepreneurship backstory, everyone sees me and you know, I have very polarizing and very, like serious views, you know, online, and people tend to gravitate towards me. And they think like, oh, she must have been like, born for this, right. And I always say, I was forced into entrepreneurship. I never wanted to be an entrepreneur, I always thought, oh, you know, I'm just gonna work my way up the corporate ladder and be a CMO and somebody beautiful office in downtown New York and like, make all this money and just like, be amazing. But that wasn't a case that I graduated at the tail end of the recession. So I was lucky enough to have gotten a job. In Washington, DC, I relocated, I moved around, you know, to kind of chase job opportunities, but I ended up getting laid off twice in one year. So I got laid off in February, I found another job. And then I got laid off in November of the same year. And I was like, Okay, God, like maybe just not supposed to be doing like maybe I'm supposed to be doing other things. So during that whole entire time, throughout my whole career, I've always side hustles I've always like consulted on the side, or how to blog or done something. So I was just kind of like, okay, well, since a job search isn't panning out for me. And getting rehired isn't working, like let me just kind of like work on my own business in the meantime. And in the meantime, turned into, you know, two, almost three years of full time entrepreneurship before I ended up going back to work full time. And I just really took what I was doing at work in corporate America, and I just made it a service. You know, when I was a social media manager in corporate America, I was managing small business owner social media pages. When I moved up and became a digital marketing manager, I started creating more like marketing strategies for people. So as I grew in my career in corporate America, my services started to evolve. And that's kind of how I ended up here today, right? Like a culmination of 10 years of a marketing career is what I get to offer to business owners every day. Hmm, brilliant. I love hearing the beginnings of somebody's entrepreneurial journey, because we each have one that's unique, but almost always, there are some pieces of that, that we can connect to, even though we have different stories, right? You know, over the last, especially the last year, I've seen you get a lot more vocal about the power of mindset and like the stories that we tell ourselves about our reality and rooting out, you know, the beliefs that we're choosing versus the beliefs that serve us and even you know, even as we navigate like the facts of life, right, because there are some facts that are just like that is just the reality that we're living in. So what what has caused that shift? And can you tell us a little bit more about where your your thoughts are on that? Yes. So what had happened was, I went through a very difficult cold season, right? Right. When I jumped into full time entrepreneurship, I noticed that I wasn't built up mentally for the entrepreneurial journey, right? I had always had this very linear view of life. You go to school, you graduate, you get married, you have kids, you work a job. And that's it. So when I became an entrepreneur, like my sense of identity, kind of like, shifted a little bit, and I was like, Who the hell am I without a job? And then when I became a full time entrepreneur, and I was burnt out, it was like, Well, who the heck am I now that, you know, I'm just Emily, the marketer, right? So I started to kind of, like, get into this, like, this ebb and flow of like, my emotions and my feelings. And some days, it was really, really great. And other days, I was like, eff this whole business, I'm gonna throw the whole thing away, I'm just gonna find a husband. And I'm just gonna, like, be somebody is Rich White, because like, This just can't be it right? This just cannot be what it is. And so I started going to therapy, and I just kind of like, got right with the Lord, like, you know, kind of became closer to God. And as I grew spiritually, I started to become really interested in like, the science, behind our emotions, just like, why are we like this? Like, why do we struggle so much? Why do we always have to, you know, convince ourselves of certain things. So I started, you know, studying, like, neuroscience and emotional reprogramming. And then I started studying neuro linguistic programming. And the more and more that I learned to heal myself, the more and more that I realized, like, this is so applicable for everybody else in my position, because in entrepreneurship, we all try to be the authority. And we all want to seem perfect online, that nobody wants to be the vulnerable, the vulnerable ones to be like, I'm actually struggling. And here are some of the things that worked for me. So I was just so sick of like, being the only one or, you know, people who were having these conversations didn't look like me, they were like, you know, older white men or like girls in like their mid 20s. And I'm like, Well, you I can't relate to you, because like, you're just younger than me, and like, you haven't even experienced life. And then the older people, I'm like, You didn't even grow up with social media, like, you definitely don't know what I'm going through. So I kind of like felt alone. And I was like, well, since nobody wants to talk about it, I'm going to talk about it and kind of like, see, you know, if other people feel the same way. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I love hearing about how, how you've gotten into, you know, digging into, you know, the neuroscience and the psychology behind this, because I think we used to think of this as very woowoo. Like, it was very much in the like, sort of spiritual space. And, you know, I'd love to hear maybe some of the studies that have impacted your perspective on mindset, because I want to, I want to circle back to some of what you said, after we dig into some of that science. Or Sure, I really, really would say my first kind of like, Aha moment with, like neuroscience and emotional reprogramming is a woman called tyese Gibson. And she actually has a really popular YouTube channel called the personal development school. And, you know, like, a lot of women, it was like, I'm gonna find myself now that I am post breakup, and I'm gonna be the best version of myself ever, right? And as I started to, like, start I was I was Googling, like, how to get over your ex, like, you know, all that like, crazy stuff that you do like when you're heartbroken. So as I was like, researching that, I came across attachment styles. And in her YouTube channel, she talks about emotional reprogramming, and emotional mastery and understanding that when we're young, when we're kids up until we're like, eight or nine, we're getting all these programs, right? All of these beliefs are being ingrained in us, subconsciously, without us even realizing it, that we carry into adulthood. So regardless of how many affirmations we say, or what we believe, on a conscious level, or what we even try to accomplish, we then always are going to default back to whatever our program is. So if I believe that make money as hard, I'm always going to attract situations that make me work hard for money, I'm always going to find jobs that make me work hard for money, I'm always going to feel like I never have enough money. Even if I'm an entrepreneur, even if I have a great salary. Even if you know, on the outside, I'm looking for ease. If I've been, you know, programmed, if I subconsciously believe that making money is difficult, then I'm going to create that environment around me because biologically, our bodies want to keep us safe, and they're always going to prove us right. You know and what people don't realize is like, it's a lot more biological and like Scientific than just the woowoo I'm following the universe like, Spirit told me it's like, no, there's actually biological responses to when we're afraid, how we fall in love how we, you know, operate in on a day to day basis. See, I love hearing this because it starts to sort of round out what we what we know spiritually and what we follow spiritually with what what we know to be true scientifically, which is more and more of that is coming out now we're starting to learn more. I mean, there's stuff out there now, that wasn't out there even five years ago, right. And I want to talk a little bit about this cultural training and those beliefs that we get from our culture, especially, I especially like to talk about this as hustle culture or toxic capitalism, because I find that culturally, we really, really identify with our job, right. And so when we lose a job, whether whether we leave it on purpose, or we're let go for whatever reason, there's a kind of like mini identity crisis that can happen there. And part of that, yes, yeah, part of that has to do with this sense of your job as your identity, your productivity as your self worth, right, and that your value is tied up in what you're producing. You know, can we talk about that a little bit, because I feel like that is one of the biggest issues that we bump up against, even as entrepreneurs is productivity is self worth. And it can lead us to take advantage of ourselves, like explain ourselves, in ways that we're trying to, to avoid by being entrepreneurs, like so many people become entrepreneurs to have time freedom and flexibility. And then like, somehow, we don't allow ourselves to have that. Talk about this. Seriously, you know, what I always ask people to think about, it's like, for so much of our lives, right? We were rewarded based on like what we did, right? So you have to be a good student, right? There's Perfect Attendance Award. So you're getting rewarded on just showing up, right? That then we carry those things into adulthood. So we think social media is a perfect example. We think, Oh, if I show up on social media, if I post every day, and I checked those boxes, I'm good. Why? Because we think that attendance is enough, right? We think that attendance is the thing that we need to be striving for, like being visible being present, whatever, right. And then when we're in this whole structure of like, grades and going to school and going to class, and we just live this very structured, rigid life for so long, that when we break out of that, we don't even know what to do with ourselves, we start to feel guilty, right? Because it's like, oh, if I take if I take a day off right before your mom used to have to write a note for you to be sick from school, or you have to ask for time off, for work from your boss. So when you're your own boss, you start to feel a lot more pressure. And we don't give ourselves permission to really design a life that we want. Because we've been conditioned for so freakin long, you know. And one thing I always remember, I always like to remind myself of is, I'm a valuable, and I'm worthy, regardless of what I do, I'm valuable and worthy because of who I am. But our salaries are tied to, you know, our job title. So the bigger the job title, the more money right that we're perceived to have, the more money that we perceived to have, the more successful we're perceived to be. So we're just constantly chasing these labels that will allow us to be perceived in a certain way, even if the current reality may not be what it is, you know, what we want to perceive it to be. So it's really one of those things where therapy is the only thing that really helped me work through this, where I would like literally sit with my therapist, and I'm like, oh, you know, like, whatever, like, this campaign isn't going well. Like, I just feel like I'm such a bad marketer. Like, I feel like it's not working out. And she's like, Are you a bad marketer? Or do the Facebook algorithm changed? Are you a bad marketer? Or is this a project that was rushed, right? So when you start to look at all those external factors outside of you, you're like, Okay, I'm actually not that crappy. Maybe it's just, you know, I'm not paying attention. And I don't have like the right perspective, to see it from a different lens. But we're just, we've just so used to be rewarded for, you know, the labels that we have CEO this, that the fourth that, it's like, when you take those things away, it feels like Oh, I'm not enough like me, just being a woman from the Bronx who loves yoga, just it just doesn't seem like enough or like people will care about it. So I have to layer on Oh, I'm an entrepreneur and I wasn't Forbes and I was this to kind of make myself feel a little bit more important and to add that credibility in my relationships with other people. But once we all kind of restrict all of that away, then we start to really understand like, who are we at the core and do people in our lives like really love all of the people that truly truly love me the most, they don't benefit at all from my marketing expertise or from the fact that I'm an entrepreneur, they love me because I'm funny, or because I'm carrying or, you know, because I made them breakfast. Like, it's just little things like that, that you start to ignore or not consider as valuable when you're stuck in like that rat race and that hustle culture of, you know, money equals success and success equals money. 


Emily Carter  

Yes, ah, yes, this. So, you know, a lot of what you're talking about, has to do with sort of our relationship to ourselves, right, and how we see ourselves, and where are places in, in the world that we're living in. And when we, when we start to put that on someone else to define, when we put that outside of ourselves, that's when we run into things like burnout, that's when we end up I mean, that is one of the quickest path to get to burnout is to just like deny that, that connection to self and and that identity that you define just through your existence, right? Yeah, it's so good to hear you talk about this, because I feel like the more that we talk about this, and the more that we shine a light on it, the easier it is to recognize when we're falling into that trap ourselves, you know. So, you know, I work with entrepreneurs who are primarily in their first five years of being full time in their business. And a lot, a lot of folks that I work with are even still side hustling. So they haven't even gone full time in their business yet. But, you know, for folks in that part of their journey, you know, there are some pretty specific mindset traps that that they're likely facing. So can we talk about some of those that you've noticed? And maybe what's a better approach for them, or some simple things that can help them shift away from those traps? That, that we've been talking about, and climb out of that negative storytelling cycle? Like, how do we do that? You know? 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yes, it's hilarious when people think that I've, like, always been a full time entrepreneur, and I love it, because I'm like, I freakin hate this. Okay. And if there was an easier way, I wouldn't be doing it. But I haven't found it. So here I am struggling with all of you. But the biggest thing that I've learned and even like, with my clients that I coach, we tend to want to delegate or outsource our agency. And what I mean by that is, because of the increase of so much online information, and online education and coaching programs, and all of that, we start to think that the answers that we're looking for are in the next coaching program are in the next mile, don't are in the next revenue, you know, a mark, and when we don't hit those marks, or when we don't get that, you know, positive reinforcement, right? Where it's like, oh, we put a live the live didn't go viral. I feel personally attacked, I'm internalizing that and that now it's like, I'm a failure. I'm bad at social media, my business will never be great, right? And it's like, what if it was just the strategy didn't work? And it actually has nothing to do with you. Right, like, mind blowing, mind blowing. Right? Right. And so when we stop taking things, you know, people say like, don't take things personally. But to take it a step further is like you cannot internalize every bad thing that happens, especially in business, to say something about you, right? Even in relationships, like, oh, well, you know, my relationship didn't work out. I was this, or maybe you and that person just were not a good match. And you are, as Gwyneth Paltrow says, consciously uncoupling to go couple yourself with the right person, right? So how about we consciously uncouple from all the BS? That just doesn't work for me, right? If I don't want to go and post every single day on Instagram, I'm not going to do it, right? Because I'm going to be miserable, trying to follow the advice of somebody who actually enjoys what they're doing, right? They enjoy posting every day. And because it works for them. They're like, Oh, well, the solution to be successful on social media is to post three times a day. Right? So now we're focused on the tactic that worked for one person instead of figuring out the strategy and unpacking the strategy that works for us. So the biggest, like negative storytelling cycle is when we start to internalize things and we start to ignore what we actually want. Because we have to follow somebody else's blueprint, again, to be successful. Oh, if I want to hit a six figure year, I have to do 500 webinars, or if I want to, you know, hit a six figure year, I have to run all these Facebook ads, or I have to do this and it's like, you don't have to do anything. Right, right. You do not have to do any frickin thing. And that's the biggest thing. that side hustlers and full time entrepreneurs should lean into, it's like, there's nobody that's going to design a business that feels good to you, outside of you, right. And it's your job to find the people, the programs or resources that resonate, that feel good and are really aligned with what you want to accomplish, because that there's no one size fits all. And once we give ourselves permission to find like, what works for us in partnership in business in life, it literally will like open up a world of opportunities, because you're not going to keep trying to force yourself into a box that you don't fit in and that you don't want to be in in the first place. 


Emily Carter  

Yes, this is so important this, that word alignment is so important, I really underestimated when I first got into business, how important it is to align with the voices that I'm listening to. So whether it's, it's a mentor that I that I'm paying to coach me, or somebody that I'm following on Instagram, whatever those voices are, that I'm paying attention to. If they're not in alignment, and I'm trying to follow their stuff, it's just, it's just not gonna work, right? Because we aren't lined up. And one of the hardest things to do is to take somebody else's strategy that they're teaching you, and like, learn to make it your own, right? Like, you really have to know some things about yourself and how you like to work. And zero in on those. And when you stop and you pause long enough to recognize like, what do I really like? And how can I use that to market my business? Suddenly, things start to click into place, but you have got to do that hard searching work first, nobody else can do it for you, you know? 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Mm hmm. Totally. What have you found, like me interviewing you on your own podcast? But what have you found to be like, some of that work? Because even for myself, and and even with my clients, like, it's like, I wish I could just pour 30 years of life into them and be like, these are all the things I learned now go and find yourself. But what are some of the things that you have kind of found with like, you know, being able to, like, sit with yourself and really acknowledge, like, what aligns for you? Yeah, so


Emily Carter  

it's really, it's gonna, it's a couple of things. First, I worked really hard on core values, because I think the core values are like, preach, right? Like it says, if there is an easy button in business, it is knowing your core values and sticking with those to guide you, no matter what decision you're making. If you make them based on your core values, you will never make a bad decision, you will never regret a decision, you might not like the results, but you will never regret it. Because you will have made it based on something that really truly matters to you. And that can never be wrong. Right. So that's one thing is like really honing in on that, right. So like, it's kind of like outsourcing. But it's like, based in something that's really grounding to you. And the other thing is being able to create space, for me to process what I actually want to do. So one of the things that I preach is to like, if you don't like to journal, cool, like, don't sit down in front of that page and try to write whether it's like on your laptop or in a journal or whatever. If you're more of a verbal processor, find a way of capturing that, right? Like otter AI is free. And you can like record something like 6000 minutes a month for free. It's ridiculous how much you can get transcribed that way, like just walk around with otter transcribing you as you talk into it. I personally am more of a verbal processor. So what I like to do is I like to go on walks and without if I'm struggling with something, whether it's figuring out like, what's urgent versus important, because solopreneur over here, if it happens in my business, I'm the one doing it, right. And so sometimes when stuff gets busy, I got to figure out what's urgent and important, and what can wait, right, like what's just urgent, but not actually something that I need to be spending my my attention on, in my time on, right? Because there's a difference there. So those are the two things that I kind of lean on really hard. Yeah. 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yeah, that's so freaking good. And actually reminds me I did a podcast on burnout yesterday. And I like did all this research. And one of the five or six factors of burnout is like you being misaligned, your values being misaligned with whatever you're doing. So whether that's your business or your job, there you have core values. So if you really value let's say freedom, but you work at a very rigid nine to five, of course, you're going to feel suffocated, and I realized I was like, I don't even really know what my values are, right? Like, we craft this whole resume with all of our qualifications. And it's like, I haven't ever probably like maybe on Team retreats or or work things. I've sat down but I'm like, in the last maybe three years, I haven't really sat down to think about okay, now that I've turned 30 And like, you know, it's like the moment you go from 29 to 30 It's like, you're a new person. And I was like, you know, I never really sat down to kind of like reassess, like, what's valuable to me now, like, what do I value at this stage in my life, because what I valued when I was 25, and I was like, hustle and work hard, and team, no sleep. And you know, wearing that badge of honor of being out is not the space that I'm in now. And I definitely think that so many of us don't give ourselves that space to just think about, like, what are my values in this season? And I have permission to change my mind from last season, right? So whether it's last month, last year, two years ago, like, if I value freedom in that season, and I don't value it anymore, that's okay. You know, it's okay for us to change our minds. But we feel like, Oh, well, you know, five years ago, in one YouTube video, I said that tick tock was the way to go. So now I need to be stuck on tick tock, or one time five years ago, I said that I was only doing passive income products, there's no way I can go to high ticket now. And it's so much BS that we tell ourselves, because we just feel like we are being held accountable by this invisible Counsel of business owners somewhere that doesn't exist. Yeah. So I love that core values part because, whoo, I need to do I need to do a little exercise on that today. 



Yes,


Emily Carter  

Yes, yes, girl, listen, I, I preached the value of core values all the time, you know, I want to shift focus a little bit, but not too much. Because this does relate to marketing, right? So  I really, if you are faking it till you make it, if you don't like feel confident in what you're doing, if it feels out of alignment. You know, if there's something like behind the scenes, that isn't like matching up with what you're putting out there in your marketing, it's, it's like just not going to get the results you're after, is it? And, yeah, and so either because you  half assed the execution, or you aren't owning your message fully. Or, you know, your actions are out of alignment with like, who you are and what you believe. Can we dig into this mindset stuff? Because this is really where the rubber meets the road and our marketing, right? 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yes, I love that you said that you you half ass it, right, because it all comes back to like our limiting beliefs. And you know, our rebar programs, right. And what I always encourage people to consider is, the same way that you can tell when somebody is being inauthentic on the internet is the same exact way that people can see right through you. So I can tell when I'm scrolling on Instagram, when somebody is creating content, because they feel like they just need to check a box versus like, they genuinely genuinely enjoy creating the content, right? I can tell when people are mimicking or copying a strategy versus when they're implementing or executing a strategy in their own kind of way. And it all comes back down to the limiting belief of I'm not enough. That's what it all comes down to. Right. I'm not enough to show up on Instagram Live, I'm not enough to, you know, write good blog posts or create podcasts or whatever. Because we all have this gut feeling in you know, that we, we have this like Inkling and this gut feeling of like, oh, I should probably do this. But immediately we self sabotage ourselves. And we're like, oh, well, I can't do this because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And it's if you have that gut feeling, and if you have that nudge, and if you have that inkling, whether it's live video, or podcasting, or networking event, direct mail, Facebook ads, whatever it is, you probably have that nudge for a reason. And often we don't follow that nudge, because oh, well, our business coach said this, or that's not trendy right? Now we have to do this, or you know, so and so made a million dollars in seven minutes in on Shopify, so I got to go get on Shopify and sell bath bath bombs now, you know, so we don't, um, we just always feel like we're not worthy of whatever it is that we actually want. And we're always trying to copy somebody else. So that's like one of the biggest, biggest, biggest limiting beliefs that entrepreneurs have is just like, I'm not worthy of x, I don't have enough x, it can't possibly be this easy. It can't possibly be this simple. And we overcomplicate the whole scenario. And when we are forcing ourselves to show up, we're going to always show up half assed, right? We're always going to show up, very obviously, like trying to check a box versus coming from a place of gratitude coming from a place of service coming from a place of excitement. You know, if I made $5 million tomorrow, and I retired, I would still talk about these things with the same passion because they light me up and I enjoy them. But when you have a business or a business model that you're literally just doing for the check, it shows, you know, so it really just all comes down to a feeling of worthiness and being worthy of the type of business that you want worthy of running and marketing your business how you want and not letting you know the online internet pressure forced you to feel like you have to, you know, put on this mask and be perfect online for the sake of sales. Like I always say, I'm not going to be performing for my audience, I'm not going to be putting on his show, you're going to get who I am authentically, if that resonates with you, great, we're aligned, we can work together. But if it repels you, that also serves me because now I'm not working with people who I haven't been called to serve. And the only people that we do a disservice to when we pretend to be somebody else is ourselves. Because we end up with clients that we hate with them says that we hate our family and friends are sick of us fed up, our therapist is like, if this girl comes in here, one more time talking about Facebook ads, like I'm gonna lose it, you know. So it's just like, girl, you and everybody around you is miserable. So just like get on the Get on the train, get on the self prioritization train, get on the self actualization train, and you'll get much farther. And a lot of times we feel something in our bodies before our conscious brain picks up on it. And those signals allow us when we pay attention to them, they allow us to trust ourselves, right? And then we can go confidently make those decisions, we can confidently get on our Facebook Live, or do our Instagram reels in ways that like, you know, we know align with us. Because I guarantee you, if you're doing something, and it and it doesn't align with you, you're gonna come across uncomfortable. And you know what uncomfortable says to people, it says, Don't trust me, because you're not trusting yourself. Right? Hmm, that's the perfect a perfect, perfect connection. Because that's what it really comes down to, it's like you're not even confident in what you sell. And because you're not confident in what you sell and what you're doing. You don't show up and market it fully. And it shows like when people have launches, and they you know, they do like the bare minimum for their launch. I'm like, they're not excited about their program. Why would anybody else be excited about their program? They are not excited about their product? Why would anybody else be excited about their product, and it just comes down to that, you know, that imposter syndrome and that insecurity that really like takes over and is really the the person and the thing leading our business. And we're trying to show up, you know, even with like lives and stuff like that, okay, maybe live video isn't the way for you. But maybe it's podcasting. Maybe it's writing, right, maybe you're a writer, but there's some way that you need to communicate your message about your product or service. And if you're excited, you're going to want to tell people about it. Right, you're going to want to share and my friend Maya always says she always says like, selling is serving, right. And by you selling your you get to be in service to the people who really, really need you. But when you don't sell confidently, because, you know, you think Oh, my program isn't perfect, or Oh, my launch isn't perfect my graphics, my this my that you're going to not be able to reach all of the people that you need to reach and serve all the people that you need to serve, because you're not showing up. And I even remember, like, maybe this was maybe 2018 2019 I had really bad like hormonal imbalances. And my acne was bad. Like, I had never had that type of insecurity in my life. And my business I basically just like stopped going live, I stopped showing up. I just was like, I don't want anybody to see my face anymore. I got off social media, I was just like, really in a in a bad place. With my self esteem. And when I came to the realization that like, you know, my acne is hindering me from doing something that I actually enjoy that hindering me from being able to get clients and do what I need to do. Like, I need to fix this, right? Like I can't keep just hiding behind the acne forever. Right? But I know people who are like they're waiting to lose X amount of pounds before they have the photo shoot, they can't go live because they don't have their makeup done. They can't do X because of y and it's like you're literally just hurting yourself and the people who are waiting for you to step into you know, whatever it is like so I went vegan I did like all these things to like clear my acne and thank God after like six to seven months, I finally did end up cleaning up but I had to work on like, how do I still show up in spite of not feeling my best because what's on the other side of me showing up is so much more valuable than the self pity that I feel right now. You know, and that's kind of the negotiation that you have to have your with yourself where it's like, is where I am right now more valuable than what's on the other side of me showing up?  


Emily Carter  

Yes, yes. Oh, this is so good because There are so visibility can be such a tough nut to crack, right? Like it can be really hard to be visible. Sometimes it's because we're terrified of saying what we actually mean, because we think we'll sound like an idiot, or we're afraid people won't like us because of what we say. And those issues manifest in similar ways, right? In our business. So, so what what what might we be seeing in our business as a result of, of that kind of feeling that we have? How are the mindset obstacles preventing us from from showing up, right? And like, what are some of the ways that we can get clear on where we're getting tripped up so that we can start to unpack for ourselves, you know, the same way that you did for your acne? How do we, you know, reverse engineer that for ourselves so that we can start showing up better? 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yes, the first thing that we have to sit down is not I mean, I'm gonna steal this from you, but it's like, figure out what it is that you want, aka like your value. So I always tell everybody, like, what do you actually want, right? Because when you don't know what you actually want, and when you don't know the actual business that you want to design, then you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall, trying a whole bunch of different things and hoping that something sticks. But when you say, hey, I want to build a business where I work three days a week, four hours a day, I sell, you know, I don't work with a lot of clients, I sell high ticket, I serve 100 clients a year, whatever, right? The marketing strategy is formed out of what you want. But instead, we try to make what we want fit into the marketing strategy. And that's where the stress comes from, right? Because it's like, Okay, I am an introvert. I hate people. I hate going live. But I'm going to sell low ticket passive income products that require me to get in front of hundreds of 1000s of people a year. Where does that make sense? Right? Where, like, where does that actually make sense, right? So first, figure out what you want. Get clear on your personality. So I've done like the DISC assessment, Myers Briggs, like all that, and folks will be shocked to know I'm actually an introverted extrovert, like, I will do this podcast and like, give it my all, and then do not talk to me for 48 hours, I am now a monk right?


Emily Carter  

Feeling that same here.


Emmelie De La Cruz  

So because I know that about myself, I space things out purposely so that I can always like, show up, my best always show up high energy, right? So once you kind of have, okay, this is my ideal business. And then these are the things that I know about myself, then we think about what are out of all the strategies that are out there. What aligns best with, with what I want to accomplish with the type of business that I want to design, and with the type of life that I want to live. After we do those things, then it's time your limiting beliefs are gonna be like, Girl, this sounds so cute, but no, right? All those doubts are gonna start creeping in all of that. And then that's where you have to work within your limiting beliefs and think about what is it that I believe to be true about the situation? And is it actually true, right? So if I say I want to have a high ticket, seven figure business where I only work with 100 entrepreneurs, and immediately what I started doing is okay, well, According to my calculation, if my group program is $3,000, and I want to work with 100 people, that's not enough people to make seven figures. And now I'm too focused on the how, right instead of being focused on the what I want to accomplish, right, yeah, so I now have to think about, okay, what is what do I really believe about the situation? Do I believe that I'm not going to be able to get 100 People do I believe that I'm not worthy of raising my price? Do I believe, you know that my program isn't good enough to be high ticket, you know, you you start to, like, just literally list down. All of the reasons why you can't do something are usually your limiting beliefs, right? They're your excuses. And then working through, okay, is that actually true? And finding ways for you to fill the gaps, right. So if I know that I want to build, like, for me, I really wanted to build a high ticket business, but I was so sick and tired of like, agency life agency, like was kicking my butt. So I was like, Okay, well, I know that I still want to serve clients in a one on one capacity, but I don't want to do an agency. What are the other options? And literally, when I made that decision, I started seeing a whole bunch of ads by Jordan Gill from systems saved me who she teaches VIP days, right? And I was like, Man, I love the idea of VIP, like, yes, but it's like it's something that wasn't even in my awareness, right? Because I wasn't looking for that at the time. But it's like the moment that I made the decision that I was like, oh, okay, I wanna pass the but I don't want to work in agent See? And I was like, you know, God angels universe, what's next? And just being open to like receiving? I came across a Facebook ad that was like, Oh, here's the answer to VIP days, right? But had I not sat down to think about what kind of business do I want? What do I know about myself? Right? And what are the strategies that are available to me to to develop that and then really started to challenge myself with what were all the excuses as to like, Why can't like why can't I have a seven figure high ticket business without working for a whole bunch of people. When I started doing that work, I was like, Oh, I've been self sabotaging my whole career. I've been literally self that it didn't matter. The lives don't matter. And the posts don't matter. And all of that is just a an outcome of like, your excitement and your alignment in your business. Because when you're once you're excited and you're aligned in your business, promoting, it becomes easy, because you want to tell everyone you literally want to shout it from the rooftops like, oh my god, I have this amazing thing. Tell your friends, tell their friends to tell their friends, what you need. You need you want to get on a sales call, you need a discount, like, Girl what you can like, become like Oprah, you like VIP day for you VIP day for you, everybody gets a VIP day. Like, you're just so freaking excited. You know? Yes, yes. And that excitement really comes from from that alignment that, you know, unfortunately, so many people don't give themselves the opportunity to find because they're just so focused on like that next dollar. So for a lot of the side, hustlers that listen to you, I would also recommend like, if you know that money, right, and financial security is a very important value for you, then stay in your job for as long as possible until you find the full time business model that feels good to you. Because when you rush from side hustling to full time, because we have this belief like, oh, well, if I have more time in my business, I'll make more money, which isn't true, right? When you think, Oh, well, if I just could work on my business 40 hours a week, instead of having a job, I will make more money and be able to replace my income, you rush out of your job, you end up in a business that you actually don't love that you hate that maybe your profit margins suck, or you know, you're not in the in the right space or place. And now you're you hate your business too, right? And then you get you end up in this cycle of, well, I need money. But in order to make more money, I need more time. Oh, but now I don't have any time because you know, and you end up in this like never a never ending loop downward spiral, you know. So if you're a side Hustler, definitely find that alignment first, and then like, jump out the window to do the full time thing because it's ghetto. Either way, it's ghetto in the full time entrepreneurship streets, it's ghetto in the full time job streets. It's just ghetto. Like if you know, a rich man with an inheritance that's about to die. Like that's really your best bet at this point for happiness. Because like, you're not going to find all of this joy all of the time. In business for work. Now. It's you have to find your joy outside of, of your business and outside of work, you know, sometimes, too, so? God bless.


Emily Carter  

Yes, yes. So this is the preach. So you know, some of what, what I was thinking about while you're talking is that, you know, when we're thinking about our business goals,


Emmelie De La Cruz  

sometimes we forget, like we have, we put a model in our head of what that business should look like, without thinking about like, but how do I want to feel? Right, like, and what's going to get me there, right? Because like, a lot of times I hear I hear people say, just like you said, you know, I want to work three days a week, I want to work with this many people. And they've got this, like these hours mapped out, right. But they but they don't know what that gives them on the other side. Like, yes, of course, working three days a week sounds really sweet. Right? But like, what do I want to feel about my business? And how can I get that feeling? Right? How can I get the feeling that I wanted? What feeling do I think I get from working three days a week, right? Like, what is that supposed to gift me with? Because when you start connecting that those dots, instead of being tied hard and fast to like, a certain number of hours with a certain number of clients, then some magical things start to happen. Because you can start to give yourself what you want and need from your business right now. Instead of like some day in the future when you're able to work three days a week, because listen, entrepreneurship is hard for a reason. It's going to bring out all of your insecurities. It's going to challenge you in ways that you have never been challenged before. And the thing that keeps you going will not be that I'll be able to work just three days a week if I keep at it like that is not going to get you through that shit. Like you're gonna have to connect that to what does that get me really? Right? Does it get me more time with my kids or my partner? To get me more time with my mom? Like, what are the things that you're going to be spending that other time with that are actually important to you. Right? And I just thought like, yes. Because like, that's exactly what you're getting at is that feeling that we're supposed to tap into? That makes it worth it, right? Yes, yes. And as you were talking to I was also thinking about how when we have this, like, false sense of urgency, and when we're in this, like, hustle mode, it translate into our customer journey as well, right? So yeah, when we're marketing people don't understand, like marketing is it's just a customer conversation that happens on multiple channels over a longer period of time, right? So when you're showing up frantic, right, you're not communicating the value of whatever it is that you're offering. So the person that's trying to make a buying decision that's trying to even see if you're a possible solution for them, they can't even receive the information because they're so distracted by how you're showing up, you know, and you end up attracting people, you end up designing a marketing and a sales process that feels very frantic, that feels very based in scarcity, right, you're like, five days supply, I get it shut down fast action bonus, discount this, you know, you're so all over the place that attract people who are also all over the place. And that's where you get the pain in the butt clients, right? The needy clients, because you we don't want to admit it. But it's like, when you're needy in your marketing, you attract people who are going to be needy as well, right. So if I'm over here, like, Okay, I'm going to give bait and switch them, I'm going to have them download the lead magnet, and then I'm going to send them 12 emails, but then at the end of the email, because they didn't buy, I'm going to give them a $500 discount. And then if they don't do that, I'm gonna give them another bonus. And it's like, you cater to them throughout the whole sales process. So by the time they actually show up and become a client or a customer, of course, they're gonna be a pain in the ass, because you just bent over backwards in your marketing process, because you weren't confident in what it was that you were offering. So you kept changing and you kept switching? 


Emily Carter  

Yeah, and this has to do with honesty, too, right? Like being transparent and honest with people and setting their expectations properly. Will do you so much good, even when you're feeling unconfident, right? Like being clear about what you deliver, and then delivering exactly that. Like, you don't have to under promise and over deliver. That's not that's actually a terrible business model, right? The best thing to do is to make your promise, stick to it and deliver on that, right people are so not used to experiencing that, that it will actually blow their minds like I've actually, I've done this a few times where I've met with, with clients who, who are like, Wait, you're Wait, like you, you just did you? You're not going to pitch to me on this call, like, no, because that's not what I told you was straight up told you no sales, there won't be sales on this call, right? And so what do I get out of that? Well, I get to sit down with a human who's interacting with my business, and hear why they're interested in what I'm doing. When we start to build our business, on relationships, and trust. Suddenly, all of these things start to click into place, you're going to start getting raves from people who are interacting with your business, you're gonna start seeing progress in a way that you haven't yet, if you're still in the place where you're struggling to find those folks and attract them and get visible with them. Because honest to goodness, this online business world has I full disclosure here, I did not mean to start an online business. It was not my goal. When I went full time. That was not what I was planning to do. But guess what, four months after I went full time, we were all in lockdown. So it was kind of one of those situations where it was like either figure this out, or you're gonna have to go and get a job again. Right? So which in lockdown was sincerely unappealing?


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Very, it's still unappealing now, a great resignation. 


Emily Carter  

And some of the tactics that you were talking about the timers, and the fast action bonuses, and all of this stuff, to me just looks like bells and whistles that are unnecessary, because if your product is good, the one that you're actually selling, you don't need those bonuses. All you need to do is deliver the promise that you told me about, right. And, and I feel like we get so tied up in like, giving people extras that we forget that what we're selling is actually good enough. And if it's not good enough, yeah, maybe we need to re address that first or readdress our confidence about it. Right? 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yep. That's, that's really what it comes down to. And again, in 2015, Emily would have been having a different conversation with you, right, Emily? had been like, okay, when you launch you need to have a whole sequence and you need to do this and you that. And, you know, you need to put a countdown timer, you need to create urgency, and you need to create FOMO and blah, blah, blah. But as I started to evolve as an entrepreneur, and as I started to see, again, business as a way of serving people, me scaring you into purchasing from me, is not going to be a good situation for you. Because now you have buyer's remorse, right, you're freakin miserable I, because of the countdown timer, you decided to give me like the last $500 in your bank account right before you're about to get married, or have a baby or move across the country or whatever. So now you're not showing up in the best place to even receive what I'm trying to give to you. And then I'm miserable. Because now I have money in my program who's not going to get results, right? Or even with like, products and services and things like that, like, you know, with Black Friday, you know, how many people are like not shopping, because they're holding their breath for Black Friday? And it's like, you know, what, if you just provided great value all year round, instead of just waiting for Black Friday to hit so that you can have this massive burst of sales or this massive, like, I literally bought these BT headphones, and they were 199. I got home two days later, and I saw a target ad that the Beats headphones were now $99. So you know what I did? The targeting right, the F back. And I'm getting my 100 Girl, and then it's like, see if this like, if the sale or the fake sense of urgency didn't exist, then I wouldn't be taking the headphones back. Right? So are the headphones really worth $99? Are they worth 199? Like, where are we at with? This? Is it? Yes, it's just like, yes, we can definitely discount and create sales and kits. And you know, we can create incentives. I think incentives are great in business, you know, for for cash injections. But if your whole business model is incentive base, are people buying the incentives? Or are people buying because they want the value that you're selling? Right? And I wanted to Beats headphones. So it didn't matter if they were 199 at the time, or if they were not I was going to buy it because I needed headphones and I was in the airport, you know, but when we started to like, build our business, like the fashion ova model, where it's like every day is a sale every day, it's a promotion. If I girl like do you even believe in what you're selling? Or what are we doing here? You know,


Emily Carter  

because the problem is almost never price, right? The problem is almost never price, right? The problem is that people don't understand what you're selling what the value is, and whether or not you believe in it is going to matters, right? It matters for the people who want to buy from you who are curious about what you have to offer. And it's so funny to hear you talk about how we would be having a different conversation today if this was happening, like in 2015. Because like the online space was so different than right. And we and it's so much different now. And especially post pandemic, I think that there has been a lot of chatter around how we run our businesses and how that actually manifests on the front end, right. So it might be happening behind the curtain. But it is definitely showing up on the front end, you know, for everyone to see. So be careful about what you do behind the scenes, like make sure it's in alignment with you and does what you want it to do. Right?


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I always encourage people to like when you think about a lot of my, my coaching framework is based around like the customer journey, because we build businesses so much about like, what we want to manipulate our customer to do versus like, what is our customer already doing? And how can we meet them where they're at? And what I find is there's so much like energy around trying to convince somebody that they need you versus trying to showcase why you're the best fit. So the best example I could give is like if somebody is a struggling with something, right? They have certain symptoms. So I'll use the acne example. Right? So I have acne, and now I'm searching for a solution, right? I'm searching, I'm searching and I'm like looking for my symptoms. And I find out somehow that Oh, my acne is actually linked to my hormones right. Now, I just became problem aware because I know that Oh, my symptom which is acne is linked to my hormones, which is my problem, right now. I'm going now I'm solution. I'm looking for a solution, right? I'm solution aware. So I know, okay, if I want to balance my hormones, I can take vitamins, I can do hormone replacement therapy, I can get back on birth control, whatever right now I have all these options, and I have am solution aware, right? We try to talk to people like hey, if you have acne, it's your hormones. You have five days to buy this thing that's gonna solve your problem, your problem and it's like, you have to close such a big education gap, convincing somebody and getting somebody to be problem aware and then solution aware, instead of us just spending our energy in what I call like the induction iteration phase where it's like they're already solution aware, right? They already know that it's between you and these other five alternatives in the marketplace. You just have to communicate why you are the best option for this type of person. Right? If you have PCOS, you getting back on birth control to clear your acne is probably not the best idea, right? If you for me, I hate. I hate swallowing pills. Like, that's literally why I had to get on birth control because it was like, baby girl, there's no way that you're even preventing pregnancy with the inconsistency of the pills that you're taking. Right? So vitamins was not an answer was not an option for me, right. So I decided to go like the dietary route, like the vegan route and like the cleansing route, like the detoxing route, if you will. But if somebody was trying to like sell me a, you know how to transform your hormones with vitamins program, it wasn't going to land with me anyway. So you're spending all this money on ads, you're harassing me in my inbox, you're like doing all of this frickin stuff. When it's like, at the end of the day, I need to find the best solution for me and the type of person that I am. And if you communicate, hey, I know that you hate taking pills, I know that, you know, getting back on birth control isn't an option for you, here is my alternative. And here's why it's a solution for you. Now I'm listening because I'm like, Oh, this works for me, it works for what I want. And I'm being marketed to when I'm looking for a solution. Now, when you feel like selling your product, right thing, and it's because you need to make money. And because you're having a launch or because you want to fill out your program. If I'm not ready to join the, if I'm ready to purchase the thing. It's not a good fit, and now everybody's unhappy, you're pissed off, because you haven't hit your launch goals. And I'm pissed off because now you've sent me 70 To launch emails and have done 10 webinars, and I'm still not buying it, girl, give it up, give it up to look at that customer journey and really understand like, where's my customer? How are they searching for information? How do they realize, you know that I'm the best solution for them, not that I'm the only solution, or the solution that they need to buy in 72 hours before cart closes, we give our customer more freedom to one breed. And to actually pick the thing that's going to get them results. And when they get results. We as the business owners win, because we get better reviews, we get better testimonials, we get more sales. And it's just the gift that keeps on giving. But when we attract the wrong people, and when we serve from a selfish place of oh, I just need to hit my numbers. I'm going to let any and everybody into my program, I'm going to run ads to every single person that lives in the United States of America. It's like, Girl, of course he was hired because you want so much.


Emily Carter  

It's a lot. And especially if you don't have a team yet. Or even if you have a small team, it can just be overwhelming for everyone.


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Right? Truly, truly. And that's one of the things that I work with a lot of entrepreneurs like, you know, they're solopreneurs, and they're just like, I'm ready to delegate my marketing, find me a VA and I'm like, okay, so you're gonna hire this VA? And what are you going to tell them? Do you have a marketing strategy? Do you have a brand voice? Do you have a content calendar? Like, what what is it that you're delegating? People want to delegate without documenting? And then they also wonder like, oh, well, I hired a social media manager, and they're not making me any money. And it's like, because the Social Media Manager is guessing, because you did not provide them with any clarity, you know. So it goes back to what we were talking about, like, what kind of business do you want to build? How do you, you and your desires fit into that? And then what's the strategy that's going to support those things? And then you can hire the people to do the jobs, right. But when we don't sit down and really like, look internally, and we keep searching externally for the answers, we're always going to be doing things that don't feel right, or that stress us out, or that don't make any sense. Because we're just trying to find these quick fixes, okay, I'm just gonna hire real quick. I'm gonna run ads real quick. I'm gonna figure out real and it's like, are these things actually solving your problem? Are they filling gaps? Or are they just like temporary tactics that you're trying to use for your benefit right now, you know, 100% I can literally go on for days. So


Emily Carter  

I feel like so I'm taking up a bunch of your time today. I have just been like, thrilled to talk to you. I have one more question. And it's what kind of free sources do you recommend, you know, like books to read or podcasts to tune into people to pay attention to, you know, for the folks who are listening who really want to dig into mindset work and or marketing? What are the things that you would recommend?


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Ooh, okay. So the first thing that you need to do is you need to journal like that is I know that we said if you don't like to write so you know, we have a great what was otter   otter data? Yeah.   Okay, use   otter but you we have to  empty ourselves out, we are so full of thoughts, so full of emotions, so full of so many things that we don't intentionally, like pour out what we're feeling, whether it's on paper or voice record, to a friend to a therapist, wherever we don't empty out, we just do not become a vessel to receive anything, you know, we can't get those downloads, we can't figure out where we want to go, because we're just so cluttered, you know, with our own thoughts and feelings and emotions. So that's definitely a non negotiable. There are tons of different like journals out there, you know, devotionals, whatever. But I really think the first first step is for you and your internal system and situation to get on one accord. I also love the book, I actually have it here, it's called the body keeps score, which is really, really good. It's called The Body Keeps Score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk.   And this book is just really good at like helping people understand like what you were talking about, about that, like mind, body feeling, and just like how your body is basically holding on to all of the things that we experience, whether we realize it or not, and how that just kind of how we show up in the world with all of that trauma, and with all of those things. And it really helped me to just really come to terms with why am I the way that I am right? Why do I you know, when you get like that, that tight chest or like that gut feeling or you know, your your heart starts racing, like, Why do those things happen to us? Right? Why do we have those emotional responses? So it really helps us to kind of think about, like, what is going on biologically? And how is that connected to what is going on or went on psychologically. So I love love, love that book. And then I definitely recommend the personal development school. So tyy, she's actually out of Canada, and she has a membership community, I think it's maybe like 69 bucks a month. But if you're like one of those people that are like, you know, therapy just isn't in my budget right now, or like a life coach, it's a really great alternative. She has a whole bunch of different like self paced courses that really help you dive into like your limiting beliefs and emotional reprogramming and understanding, you know, how your, your, what do you call it, your reticular activating system, and like how you filter things, and it's just fascinating, like neuroscientists really, really fascinating. And she just has such an approachable way of breaking it down. And just a relatable way of breaking it down that it's very easy for like entrepreneurs to digest. So those are like my go to if you're religious, the good Lord, okay. The bible church prayer has really helped me as well. But yeah, I feel like the deeper dive into myself, the easier all of the external things become. 


Emily Carter  

 I love that. Yeah, visibility is sort of an inside out job. I interviewed Jessica Huey, she wrote a book called purpose sometime actually just came out with a new version. But she says that and I just like, I love that so much like it's visibility is an inside out job. You have to do the work inside first, you know? Yeah. I love that. Thank you for those resources. So I know that folks are gonna want to soak up more of your wisdom and where can they connect with you, Emmelie?  


Emmelie De La Cruz  

  Yes, I actually launched a podcast so I'm on all of Episode Two EA finally the streets have been like, Please launch a podcast. So I did. You can find me over on Sanity and Success across all streaming platforms, and then sanity and success dot com. And then you can connect with me on Instagram. I'm at Emily de la Cruz. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes because my mom was like, you know, I can spell it regular like a normal person. Or I can add all of these extra consonants and she's decided to go the extra route. So God bless trying to find me. But yeah, so definitely connect with me on Instagram, my podcasts and again success and then if you are looking for like marketing help or anything like that, you can find me at one day cmo calm so the word one day cmo dot com.  


Emily Carter  

 Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Emmelie , I have thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today. It is such a pleasure to have finally been able to sit down with you. This one has been a long, long time coming. 


Emmelie De La Cruz  

Yes, yes. I know what what months. It's probably like a couple of like three four months. So yes, so excited. Thank you so much for having me. I had truly a blast. 


Emily Carter  

Thanks, Emmelie.  Thank you so much for listening today. If you want to dive even deeper in today's episode, just go to www dot change agent dot studio slash podcast Look for this episode shownotes sign up for our newsletter, or hit up our Facebook group from hustle to hell yes. Where we discuss and share even more resources for building a thriving business and actually playing by your own rules.