PODCAST 15: Can Systems Save You? An Interview with Jordan Gill

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Transcript:

Emily Carter  

Hi, I'm Emily and this is From Hustle to Hell Yes. The podcast with insights and interviews about entrepreneurship, the culture of work, and how to build a business that thrives with you. You'll walk away from every episode with ways to create more ease, enjoyment and effectiveness in your business. So you can really play by your own rules Hello, and welcome to the from hustle to hell yes, podcast. I'm your host Emily Carter of change agent studio.  Ordinarily, this podcast comes out with a new episode every other week. But it's that time of year when US business owners and entrepreneurs are in a mad dash to do all the things before Christmas or the New Year. And so to help you do that, with Grace, I'm sharing a podcast every week this month and beyond until the new year, with tips for self care, time and energy saving tricks that actually work and business tactics to take the pressure off. I'm really stoked about this episode of from hustle to hell yes, because I'm a systems and processes geek. But I wasn't always that way. I've really always been a data nerd, particularly when it comes to tracking things. And especially when it comes to my business. And my guest today is the queen of systems. Jordan Gill is an operations consultant and the founder of systems saved me. She helps burned out service providers replaced their monthly retainers with virtual VIP days, I got to ask Jordan about how she thinks about the customer journey to create a really great one. And also one that eases the pressure on the business owner providing the service, what it really means to stop trading dollars for hours. And I also asked for pointers for tapping into our purpose and pleasure as business owners so we can stop chasing after money so hard. Jordans program done in a day has supported hundreds of students in creating and selling their first VIP days. And she also has a podcast called system saved me with over 300 episodes all about how business owners navigate success with systems. Jordan, thank you so so much for being with us on the from hustle to hell yes podcast today. I am so super excited to interview you.


Jordan Gill  

Yes. I'm so glad to be here. And you know, it's a it's been a journey. And I'm sure we'll get into it. But But yeah, I'm so excited to share with your audience.


Emily Carter  

Yes. So for folks out there who are somehow not familiar with you. Can you give us sort of the three minute download on on you and your expertise and sort of what's unfolding for you right now?


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, totally. So I'm Jordan, I'm the head honcho over i system saved me. We've been in business since 2016. And I started out doing monthly retainers in my business. And that burned me out by month five. So I was like, Well, that was a fun ride of entrepreneurship. Maybe I need to go be a barista at Starbucks. But instead, I decided to look at different business models for service providers because I do love working with clients. And long term projects are not for me, I struggle with quite a few chronic illnesses. So I have to be really, really cognizant of my energy. And VIP days came on my plate from a sales coach I was working at working with at the time. And basically once I sold my first VIP day, it was like lights out game over. This is how I'm going to run my business. So for about three and a half years, I just sold VIP days I played around with like courses and stuff like that. But my main revenue source like 90% was VIP days making six figures. And then everyone was like, What are you doing? Because you're only working with clients four days a month, and you're making all this money and you're like, puzzling every day and catching up on Gilmore Girl reruns. So I was like, Well, this is how I've done that. And so I got enough questions to where I then was drawn to build a program, which is scary for me, again, someone who has to be very cognizant of my energy output. And you know, we're at about a year and a half later, and we've had about 2030 clients through our programs since March 2020. Yes, it was pandemic Menaka time. Yeah. But it was worth it. So that's where we stand today. And we serve mainly burnout service writers who want to replace their monthly retainers with virtual VIP days just like I did.


Emily Carter  

Brilliant. So this is so great to hear because one of the things that I hear from folks all the time as how they moved to, they went from corporate to their own business, because they wanted to have that flexibility. And then they get in their business. It's the first five years, they're throwing spaghetti at the wall, they're experimenting. I'm a big fan of experimenting, I think it's really important to experiment and, and to iterate, and really dig in deep when we're experimenting. And, you know, one of the things that that I think helps with that experimentation is collaboration. And so some of the things that I've heard from you, around VIP days, and just the way that you run your business is really collaborative. And I really love the way that you talk about competition and collaboration in business. And can you tell us more about that?


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, totally. I'm a big fan of not doing business alone. Even when I was a solopreneur. Like, it was me, myself and I janitor CEO, I was always looking for ways to work with other people, whether it was, you know, being a part of a JV partnership, a joint venture, so I would go and do a webinar with somebody else's audience, or I would do guest podcasting like this, or I would just find ways to work with other people. Because, you know, doing business by yourself can be really lonely. And I think that people think like, oh, you know, I'll get more brownie points, if I do this all by myself. And it's like, very ego driven. Like, I have to do everything on my own by myself all the time. And I just don't think that that actually really serves you that much. And that's, that's one way you can do your business. You know, that's, that's, you know, your prerogative, but my opinion is, business is way more fun when you do it with other people. And, for me, you know, doing I do systems VIP days, so I help people set up their client relationship management software. And, you know, I knew other people who were doing the same thing. And instead of being like, like, don't step on toes, like, I'm the best, whatever. Instead, I got to know them and did coffee chats and understood their services. And in some cases, I've sent people to them, because they served my clients were my potential clients better than I could have because of the industry or because of what my client was looking for. And I would just much rather have that mindset, then stifle and suffocate to where I'm, I'm really actually not serving myself not serving my clients. Yeah. And not serving my business overall.


Emily Carter  

Yes. And, you know, one of the things that that I come across all the time, and in online business is kind of this sense of, you know, there are tons of people doing what you do. And the fact that you're doing that thing isn't what actually makes you unique, right? Totally. Your, your, your particular combination of skills, and your particular process and your personality. And the way that you approach things is actually pretty important as a combination, right?


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, it is, it is.


Emily Carter  

One of the things that I that I love hearing from you is, is about sort of what's happening behind the curtain. Because I think that that is at least as important as like that veneer that we're putting out front, you know, because one of the things that I've learned is that you can't tell what a business is like or how it's running or how things are working. Just by looking at the website and social media channels, you would be shocked at the folks who have really excellent veneer, and also shocked at those folks who like don't have the veneer but have some really awesome stuff happening in the background that you would never have guessed. You can't tell. And so I'd love to hear some of your perspective on on what that magic is and maybe why that's a place that you that you thrive in.


Jordan Gill  

Yeah. Oh, totally. So yeah, before I had my own business, I was working. And Melanie Duncan's business, she's no longer in this space. But she was in the online marketing space. She was in like the the masterminds of James Wedmore and, and Amy Porterfield and all that stuff. So I grew up like learning from one of the best which was such an honor and privilege and I loved every second of working with her. And when I left the clients that my monthly retainers were were on the similar level to her. However, they they did not run it as similar to her and it was very much like oh, they're super shiny. And they have this really great like appearance and like they feel like your best friend and all this stuff like from a marketing perspective and then you come back behind the scenes and it is a completely different story and I some clients I didn't last very long with about two months. and some clients I say a little bit longer, but it was really concerning, because then you start to think, Oh, if I make millions of dollars, am I going to turn into that? Like, is that just like, part of what happens? Right? Like, I'll wake up and, and that's been don't think so I think that money amplifies who you already are. And so you know, that's just my philosophy on it. But I think that it's really, really important to connect with the people, like on the internet that you're following. Like, it doesn't have to be, you know, you know, their telephone number, but it can be where you're seeing a consistency enough to understand who this person is. And I think too, you know, it can be tough, because we've all made investments that we probably would like to take back in some instances. And that shouldn't also stop you from continuing to make investments because there are, like you said, really great people out there who like, and I'll send people to them to like, where they're like, Okay, Jordan, like, person does have like, the super tiny website, or like a coming soon website or whatever, I had to come into website for two years with zero, like, I had zero plans to actually have my website come soon. And I was still able to make a really good living, doing VIPs, because I'm like, I'm not really like the shiny bells and whistles kind of person, I just do really good work. And so if you want to connect with me and get to know me, and I'll show you some stuff, like then let's work together and my referral partners knew how great I was. And, you know, thankfully, people who are systems people, no one expects you to have a really great website. But, uh, you know, it's, it really comes down to, like, you know, massaging the strength of, okay, what do I need to know, what information? What feeling do I need to have, in order to move forward with XYZ person? Before I, you know, jump in wholeheartedly. And, you know, I think that there is a lot of there are a lot of really great people in the internet world. And I would say probably the majority of them that I recommend don't have the shiny stuff. And you know, it, that also doesn't mean if you have shiny stuff, and you automatically are you know, that person as well. However, I think that you start to really hone that inner knowing and that trusting of yourself and your decision making, that in the beginning of business, you're like, I have no idea, like who's good and who's not, I'm just gonna jump into this person's pool. And, you know, and, and you learn and you grow, and you move forward. So that's, that's kind of my take on that.


Emily Carter  

I love hearing that, because there is no one size fits all anywhere. And, and some of the things that I've discovered, so I launched my business at the very tail end of 2019. Like, we're talking like, November, December 2019, I know real awkward time to launch because usually in that first like six to 12 months, you know, you're really pounding the pavement. While we were all in lockdown, there was no pavement pounding happening. And I really thought that I was going to be doing something more localized, you know, I really thought that I was going to be mostly working with folks in my hometown. And of course, nobody was gathering at that time. So I had to completely change my approach. And, and so I was like, Well, clearly, I'm, I'm going to be I'm going to be building an online business now. And looking around and kind of noticing, you know, what's out here, I had to do a lot of just kind of watching for a while to kind of figure out like, what am I doing what, where do I fit? Where do I want to be? Right? Who do I want? In my rolodex, so to speak? You know, who do I want to be able to turn to? For information? Who do I want to put my trust in? And sometimes I was pleasantly surprised. And sometimes I was pleasantly unpleasantly surprised. You know, and, and what I found was that, always my intuition was was pretty spot on, you know, in terms of like, once you once you dig in, and within the first like, probably week of being in a program of some kind, I would I would know right away, if this was going to work for me or not, right. And just like being able to hone that sense of like, I know how I work. And I know what's going to work for me, and this probably isn't it right, or I prefer things that are, you know, of this nature. So I love hearing a little bit more about about your experience with that, because I think it really does help underscore the fact that, you know, when you're out in the world, you really have to trust your own judgment about how you do business about who you do business with, that goes for who you trust as mentors as well as who you bring in as clients who's a good fit for you. You know, I mean, that leads to another question though. Is this idea of client journey, which is something that I love about what you do is that you really talk about this in an interesting way. I think it's probably a kind of under emphasized part of business, particularly in the online business world. I hear so much varying advice about how to do this well, can you kind of share for us your framing of the client journey, and maybe give us some pointers and how we should be thinking about developing our own client journeys? 


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, so when it comes to client journey, most people think, okay, like, once people buy, like, that's when the client journey like, ends or starts, like, again, like you said, it's very, very mean. And for me, like, the client journey starts the moment they hear my name, like, whether they hear it in a podcast interview, like y'all are right now. Or if you see me on an Instagram post tag somewhere, like, that's really where it starts. And so a lot of times, I don't know when that is, I don't know who's listening. I don't know who's watching. And then it's a matter of how are they interacting with my business? Like, what are the actions are taking, oh, they've downloaded a freebie, or they've taken my quiz, or they've shared a post on Instagram, or whatever the case is. And that really shows interest. And I think people kind of downplay that, I guess, in a lot of ways, because they're like, oh, likes don't matter, all this stuff. I mean, I get it, you shouldn't, like, you know, wait your whole business on it. And it also showing, like, who's truly interested, like, who's raising their hand? And in my opinion, you know, I'm really, really big on consent. So it's very, very important in my business. And so if somebody is taking my quiz, that's them saying, like, hey, I'm interested in like, what you're talking about, and I want to know, more information. And so for me, if I'm then following up with them and saying, Oh, my gosh, you did like, that's amazing. Like, what do you think I'm doing? bunded is a type of VIP day that I talked about, if you got blended VIP day, like what are you planning to do with that? Like, how is that gonna work with your business, and then we can start a full blown conversation versus the typical, like, I'm just gonna go and like, start up a random conversation with somebody on Instagram, which I've also done. But I think that it works a lot better when you base it off the actions people are already taking to raise their hand and say, I'm interested in what you have to offer. And then right you go into the sales mechanism, which is usually sales call, or messaging, or the watch a webinar, etc. And then they get into buying and then buying is like, starts a whole nother journey. Right? Of Okay, now they're officially a client, and I want to ensure that they understand that they're very, very important to me, I let clients know the best ways to get my attention. So I tell them, Don't email me, because I'm actually not even in my inbox. Um, so in order to connect with me use these avenues, right? And so they're able to then get in contact with me, instead of them being like, why isn't Jordan answering my emails, because this you're not getting I'm not in my inbox. You know, I want to, like help them get the most out of working with me. And so instead of like keeping that a secret, or having them be lost in the woods, I would much rather say, here's the best way to get hold of me, here's what you can expect next, like every point of contact after the contract, I'm like, Alright, next is going to be your invoice and then after the invoice, okay, next is going to be your pre work questionnaire, and then after that, like next is going to be you know, it's guiding them because the funny thing is, is we're like, oh, people know, how businesses run. Every business is different. You cannot, you know, expect somebody to know how to treat you or what to expect from you, based on their previous experiences and relationships. Yeah, like, you know, and people like, what everybody knows that you, you know, do this. And it's like, I mean, not like, like, there's definitely different ways to do business. And so, you know, people are, like, get frustrated with their clients who maybe don't know how it works, but really, it's they've never worked with you before, they have absolutely no idea how you work. They're just, you know, walking into again, the kind of the wilderness in the forest. And so it's my job to kind of put the berries you know, along the path and they follow Him right. And so, that's, that's really crucial, in my opinion to client journey is not getting frustrated with clients, because, you know, if you work with a ton of clients, you know, it can be like, Oh my gosh, here we go again, like, we're having to explain this. And what if you created something to eliminate that confusion up front? So maybe it's like a mindset thing that a lot of your clients struggle with before they work with you. Why not create Like a private podcast that they can listen to in the meantime, before, you know, your start date works, like figuring out those types of things. It doesn't have to be gifts and you know, hotel rooms at the Ritz, like it can truly be, like what is helpful in preparing for and then during your client process that make the difference? And then, you know, once the client is complete in the in the project, then it's a matter of okay, like, do we want to continue this and another container? You know, do you have more friends who need the support, etc, getting those testimonials, reviews, and whatnot. But I think that it's really unfortunate the people who see, and what I see most often is people saying, Oh, they bought and so it's over, like quota. Like, I don't have to, like do any more work, I don't have to put any more effort in, I don't have to take care of anything. It's just like, once the money comes through, like, cool, like I'm out. Which that's really an unfortunate way to look at it. Because that's such a that's such a crucial time. Because, um, there's something about when you first purchase something that all of a sudden, like, you're at your highest high, and then like, after like five minutes after all of a sudden, you're at your lowest low and you're like, Why did I purchase this? Like, what? What did I just do? Like, I made a mistake, like, there's all these thoughts running through your clients head. And so you have to anticipate that that's human nature. That's not even just, you know, particular people. So you have to catch them and say, okay, like, all good, you made the right decision, here's why here's what we're going to do together, here's how it's going to be amazing. Here's why it's going to be you know, the best decision you've ever made. Right? So there's, there's a lot of pieces in there. But I think that overall, it comes down to anticipating people's needs sound about you, I love when people anticipate my needs. Right? So, so that's the biggest thing.


Emily Carter  

That's wonderful, because it also kind of creates this sense of phases of this journey, you know, and, and the things that are important to a potential customer are different throughout these phases. You know, and what I'm really hearing is that, it's really important to create the feeling that you want them to have around you and your business and the work that you're doing together. And that one way to ensure that you're creating that feeling is to be really intentional about this process. You know, when I hear you say things like consent, I think that's great, because that actually gives your customers agency. And, and this sense of like radical transparency around things like setting expectations and creating boundaries, so they know what to expect from you. You know, a lot of problems arise from just not knowing how things are supposed to go. And if you can clarify that, then suddenly you don't get slack messages at, you know, on the weekends, or whatever you know, or at least a few do. You aren't beholden to answer them, because you've already set that expectation that they can message you so that they don't forget, but you're not going to be responding to it until you're ready, right until the workday starts, right. Yeah. And as long as you set those expectations, I find people have infinite patience. If you maintain those expectations and boundaries, and are really good at making sure that you're following through on your end of that bargain. People are really understanding about how you don't want to work on the weekend.


Jordan Gill  

I totally agree. Yeah, it's about just saying what what you need and what you like, are going to be open to and yeah, I feel like people are super calm and understanding when you're up front. That's what's about. Yeah,


Emily Carter  

yeah. And really being able to kind of explain, you know, we're in a collaboration together, a lot of folks, whether they're doing no matter what it is that they're creating online, there is a kind of collaboration happening, whether it's done for you or done with you, or it's a course that is just kind of evergreen and is constantly running. It's there's a collaborative element there to all of those things. Just love hearing that from you. One of the one of the things that, that I also hear a lot in online business spaces is this idea of trading dollars for hours. And I want to dig into this idea because it just keeps coming up. Right. I recently interviewed Ellen yen of cubicle to CEO and she talks about Yes, and and she talks about the employee mindset and and trading dollars for hours and how, how that can really eat away at some of your business. And, and I think that, you know, because we need to make money in ways that are sustainable for us and the ways that we're accustomed to thinking about hourly rates are not necessarily transferable directly From our corporate experience to working for ourselves and running a business, you know, and if people aren't paying for your time, then what are they really paying you for? And, and what can we do actually to make our businesses more sustainable on this level? And I just love to hear from you a little bit more about that trading dollars for hours. thing?


Jordan Gill  

My Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I'm huge on that. And I think too, you know, with VIP days, you know, one of the biggest things that people are tripped up about is you're telling me, Jordan, I can make more money with less of my time, I'm confused. And like, you know, it's because they're like, Okay, my hourly rate that my clients normally get is $30 for dollars, $25 an hour. But my VIP day is only six hours, and you're telling me to charge $3,000 For that, like that math is like not,


Emily Carter  

that's not compute. Right? error.


Jordan Gill  

So, you know, and really, I am a big fan of value based pricing. I am really big, even with this. I have employees now in my business, and, you know, technically on the books, I have them for 40 hours a week, but I'm like, if you get it done earlier than that, kudos, great. I don't care, like, you know, go take the day off. You know, because I'm just like, if you've gotten the work done that's necessary in general, Well, who am I to say that you need to just sit at your desk and, you know, twiddle around and airtable to make up time, like, does that make sense to me. So, I think what I mean by value, price value based pricing is, what is the result that you're going to get somebody and basing your pricing off of that, right. So if my view, a good example of this is my VIP days, were $5,000 at the time that I was working with this, this lawyer and she, we set up her customer relationship management software, and then her first client through that new process actually was like, I feel so taken care of, I love this process, but I'm going to send you five more people. So her paying me $5,000. And then her pricing actually also was $5,000. So her first client through, got her technically $25,000 More in client work, and she only paid me $5,000, right, so like, it's a no brainer to pay me $5,000. And I truly feel that to my core. Because if your clients feel taken care of, because of the process that we've built together, then you're gonna get more clients from referrals from all sorts of stuff. So that's how we have to start thinking about our offerings is, you know, not just the the tangible result in the moment, but what is also the long term ROI of that transformation that we help them with. So even if it's not monetarily like, I pay a therapist every month, and I'm not, quote unquote, making ROI, return on investment or money from the work that we're doing. However, what we're working on is peace of mind. Right? And, and moving through some difficult mindset kerfuffles. Like, that's what we're doing. And that's worth it to me, versus being stuck in the same place that I am now with, with what I'm working through. So even if you you know, I get the question too all the time about I'm not helping business owners build businesses and grow businesses, again, systems, quote, unquote, generally aren't even in the money conversation, either. They're just like, oh, like, cool, like, I'm automating some stuff. But when you automate stuff, you, you are opening yourself up for more time to make more money. So there's a lot of times you can tie it back to ROI, even if you are not a traditional like, pricing or business strategist. But I think that I just That's how my brain works is even now, you know, with my program being $6,000 when I'm hiring people, or when I'm looking for, like contractors or consultants, I'm looking at, okay, like, if they're helping me with something in my program, I only need to get two more clients or one more client to cover their costs. And this what they're helping me with is going to help me with the next 230 students that I'm going to have over the next year. Right. So it really comes down to being able to articulate your value and connect it to the immediate transformation results. And the long term ROI hmm,


Emily Carter  

I love that because, you know, when you're thinking about building your business, you know, I I feel really firmly that when we're chasing money when we're chasing after profit Sometimes our purpose and our pleasure will follow, sometimes, but not always. And I find that I like to reverse that equation a bit where I put my purpose and my pleasure first, and figure out how to make money doing that. And the reason that I think that that's an important switch is that it makes the case really for these systems and processes being the bones of your business. And it's one of the things that I work with clients on as well. I don't build their systems, but we talk about what are the systems that you really need in place? And what are the what are the things that that are going to actually help free up your time, so you can have more time to for just enjoying, or if you need to hustle? Because we all go through? You know, I think the creative process is very seasonal. And and sometimes we definitely have to be hustling, right? If you're doing a large if you're doing a large live launch as a mouthful for one. And also it's a lot to do, you know, like, there's a lot going on when you're doing that. And that might feel like I've got to be on it. Right? And then afterwards, you might take a break. Right. But you're but one of the things that you're not trying to do is to have that hustle season year round.


Jordan Gill  

Right? Right. Right. That's where the issues lie.


Emily Carter  

Exactly, exactly. And I just love thinking about business as as being so much more about stepping into our own authenticity, not the cheesy kind of authenticity, but the kind that's like what actually feels good, right? And can I just do that and make that my business. And the more people the more entrepreneurs that I talk to either through this podcast or through summits, the more I find that people who are putting purpose and pleasure first, those are the folks that I want to be following because I want to replicate that for myself. And they're doing it so I'm gonna follow them how they did it.


Jordan Gill  

 Oh, totally, I agree. I agree. If you if you dismiss feeling good, then it's gonna be a really long process of building your business, it's going to be painful, it's going to be difficult. And if you don't have like, the good feeling, or the the passion, a pleasure, then when you go through the hard times, like you may not make it through them. Like, yeah, there's a lot of people who, you know, businesses don't last forever, you know, they they really don't. And so if, you know, you don't take into account, okay, yeah, I have to do this hard thing of, you know, setting up my email marketing, when I am, you know, a graphic designer, like, yeah, it's gonna, like, not feel great, and it's gonna be hard. And it's gonna not be, you know, easy for you, however, because you want more graphic design clients, and because you want the graphic design to be amazing, you do not want to be having to deal with the minutiae, that is your email marketing, or your client relationship management, etc. So it's a short term uncomfortability, of building it, to then have the pleasure and the excitement around getting to do more graphic design, right?


Emily Carter  

Mm hmm. Precisely. I love that, you know, and, and this really gets into into some money conversations too, right? Because, you know, as business owners, like, I mean, and just like, as humans who operate, you know, on this planet, money's important. You know, it is. And I believe, you know, like I said, you know, chasing that money first, and then finding your purpose and pleasures is just not, not how it should go, not how we can make it work. You know, and so I'd love to know, you know, can you share maybe your ways of uncovering and tapping into purpose or pleasure within your business and maybe, kind of give us some ideas or pointers about how we might learn from your process? Totally.


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, I love that. So I, I love to do jigsaw puzzles in my, just like, spare time, and whatnot. And, you know, the thing about jigsaw puzzles is, some of them, it's interesting, if you get into the 1000 piece puzzles, a lot of the pieces actually are shaped very similarly. Like, almost identical. And so it can be really frustrating when you have you know, pieces that are so similar and they could work, but you have to find the right piece. And so that very naturally tends itself to systems for me, because there's, again, there's certain ways there's a million ways you can do a lot of the systems that that people need in their businesses, and then there's like ones that are actually like the best fit for that person, right that that knob of the puzzle piece. And so I always like to to ask people what What they like to do in their spare time and like what lights them up? And then how does that relate to what it is that you do in your business, because that's going to, again, help you stick to it. If I'm basically I just see my clients as big puzzles. They're humans, and they're lovely. And you know, I have feelings, and I acknowledge them. And like, I see them as puzzles in their systems as puzzles. And that brings a lot of joy to me is when like, I can look the system at the end of the day and be like, alright, the puzzle is complete, and it's complete for this person. It's that person's puzzle. And so that's definitely one way that I encourage a lot of people to like, really understand where they get pleasure, and where they get excitement is what do you do when you don't have to do anything? And then how can you relate that to your business. And if you can't, then we got to figure something out, and we got to revisit it. So that's like one way, and then another way is actually listening to what other people see in you. Because I think a lot of us are like, Oh, that's easy. Like, this comes so natural to me, I don't even think of it as a skill or a competency or anything like that. But when someone else is like, bro, like, nobody does this, like this is your thing. Like really? Don't dismiss it don't say it's easy, don't you know, downplay it, actually take that feedback and journal about it, think about it. And really understand because that was something that when I worked for Melanie Duncan, she saw that I was a systems person, and I didn't, I didn't really know that that was like a skill, I didn't really know that that was something that I was good at. And other people weren't until she shone, you know, shined a light on it and was like, this is like your gift, like you make a system out of everything. It doesn't matter if it's, you know, content development, where you're building out courses, or you're building out, you know, Infusionsoft, like, it's like, you just do systems in every way, shape, and form. And so I, instead of me being like, Ah, shucks, like, it's fine. Like, it's super easy, it's not a big deal, I soaked in that information, really thought, oh, like, This truly is how my brain works. And as even my husband, my closest friends, like, it's a little neurotic sometimes. But that's truly how I operate. And that's not how a lot of other people operate. And so that's a beautiful, again, puzzle piece of connecting with more of the creative, less organized folks and take bringing my expertise, and being able to share that gift with them and have it mesh really, really well together. So I would say those are two things that I've done, that I've seen other people dismiss or not think about. And I think it's really, really important to do both.


Emily Carter  

I love that because there's so we, we tend to think of, of what makes us unique, and what makes us valuable as being the sort of like transactional thing, like I do this for you and you pay me for it. But there's actually a lot to be said about the process that happens through that transaction. And a lot of times what people are paying you for, is not that simple, like transaction where it's like, you're going to do this thing, I give you money. Sure, some, some things are like that. But by and large, I think we downplay the fact that how we do things and how we operate in our business, actually, is the thing that sets our business apart. And that when we pay more attention to those processes, and even the systems that we have in place that support the work that we do, and, and the ways in which we get our work done. I think that really comes through, when you're sitting down, you know, so many folks in in the online business world are our service providers. And they're creating programs, they're creating masterminds, they're creating courses, so they're putting out all of this content. And it's not, you know, for for those of us who are creating that stuff, you know, that's like, that's what we get excited about is like that process, right? But instead of talking about, like, you know, how, how that delivery matters, and how that how that actually supports the content that you're putting out there. Which by the way, if you're putting stuff out there that is not connected to the way that you deliver it, you're gonna need to rethink that because you're going to get, you're going to get better results for yourself and your people when you make that part of the journey for them. You know, we downplay that part. We really don't think that that is as important as like the information. But information is cheap. Google exists. You can find so much stuff for free. So much so much. But the delivery of it matters and if you're having to do Google it and that everyone all the time. That's an exhausting process, you know, part of what we part of what we do as creators and service providers is curate, right? Yes. And we make it simple for you to engage with that content. And so I like thinking about processes and connecting that to sort of, like, how you receive information. And, and making that as, like, a big deal. Like, it is a big deal, right. And it really speaks to what you're talking about in terms of like, what we kind of do naturally, that we that we don't pay attention to.


Jordan Gill  

Mm hmm. Yeah, cuz it's easy, or it's just, you know, habit or stuff like that. But those little things are signals and messages. And so you got to pay attention to them.


Emily Carter  

 Mm hmm. Yeah, I love that as a way of digging deep into into figuring out like, our real calling, and our real purpose, too, because sometimes we make it like really hard on ourselves, to find that. But, but you know, like listening and and finding that that piece of like, yeah, that feels good. Right. And really honing in on that, I think, is one of the simplest ways and most accessible ways that we can discover that for ourselves.


Jordan Gill  

Yeah, so true. I agree.


Emily Carter  

Jordan, I have so loved talking with you on the podcast, we're coming up on on the end of our time together. And I just want to ask you one last question, which is, what's next for you? And how can we continue to engage with your wisdom?


Jordan Gill  

Yes, thank you. So what's next for me is for us, it's still are done in a day program, which again, helps monthly retainer helps you replace month retainers with virtual VIP days. And we do that on Instagram. As far as sharing a lot of tips, strategies, client wins all of that stuff. Instagram is our jam. And I will say what's next as far as like thinking, like a year from now, like, really, it's dude, it's digging deeper in the st. Like, I want. And I truly do already believe that our program is the best program the whole world for VIP days. And like there's, there's always a way to improve. And so I want I want to make this the best program ever. And until I feel like we've gotten to I'm a perfectionist, in case you can't hear that in my voice. Of I'm an anagram one for those of you but I do want to make it you know, the best I can make it without being a little nitpicky person. And so that's really just digging deeper the next year, like I really do enjoy our program. I enjoy our coaches and our program. I love having the community that we have. And if I didn't enjoy the people inside my program that I probably would be you know, chasing other avenues and things like that, but I really enjoy them and think they're like the most smart, brilliant, amazing humans. So that's really our goal for the next year is just Alright, do it some more. and whatnot. So that's that's the plan, at least right now. And we'll just keep on rockin with that one.


Emily Carter  

Awesome, Jordan. Thank you again for sharing your brilliance with us here today. I'm so excited to put this podcast out and share it with everyone.


Jordan Gill  

Yes, thanks so much for having me, Emily. It was my pleasure.


Emily Carter  

Thank you so much for listening today. If you want to dive even deeper in today's episode, just go to www dot change agent dot studio slash podcast and look for this episode's show notes. Sign up for our newsletter, or hit up our Facebook group from hustle to hell yes. Where we discuss and share even more resources for building a thriving business and actually playing by your own rules.