EPISODE 22: Hard work isn't the only tool in the box - an interview with Marisa Corcoran

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Speaking from experience, Marisa's training really helped with my biggest pain points: sounding like everyone else and it taking  f o r e v e r   to write emails, sales pages, and all the other places copy show up in my business. 

*** Full disclosure, I’m not an affiliate for Marisa’s programs. BUT - if you sign up for the webinar you might help me earn a 1:1 session with Marisa. That’s not why I’m sharing Marisa’s masterclass with you - I’m sharing it because it’s hands down the best copywriting masterclass I’ve ever attended. I know you'll see results from it! ***



Emily Carter  00:09

Hi, I'm Emily. And this is From Hustle to Hell Yes the podcast where I share insights and interviews on entrepreneurship for small business owners craving a GPS. Hop in, and let's joyride to a sustainable, profitable business without burning out, getting stuck or stalling out. Destination: more revenue, less hustle.

Wow, y'all can I just be completely honest with you right now, if it weren't for some truly generous mentors, I don't think my business would have survived the first year, let alone grown like it has. So here's the truth. I owe a debt to folks out there that have been incredibly generous with their time and expertise going above and beyond to help me and one of those mentors is Marissa Corcoran. Marissa is on the podcast today, and I can't wait to share it. So I'm going to keep this intro short and sweet.

Marissa is an actor-turned-copywriting mentor who helps business owners right with creativity and real Dazzle. She helped me re energize my website when it needed a significant overhaul. And I still go to her for advice about my content. For example, I can literally look over my email analytics until you which emails I sought her advice on, because the open rates and click rates go way up by like a significant percentage. So not only is she a brilliant copywriter, and copywriting mentor, she's also a brilliant guide in online business strategy, which she shares a bit of in this interview. Today, we dig into some really important topics like inserting personality into your copy, creating a profitable and sustainable business model. And we take a quick dip into what the heck is up with summons lately, and a lot of other stuff in between. So buckle up, because this is going to be a ride and Marissa does not hold back. Marissa, thank you so much for being here today. I'm thrilled to have you on the podcast. I just am over the moon that you're here. So welcome to from hustle to hell yes.

Marisa Corcoran  02:34

Oh, thank you, Emily. It's so just awesome to be here. Just because I adore you so much. And I think you're like such the real deal. And you've, you've been a part of our community, you're part of the coffee confidence society. So it's so awesome to get to speak to somebody that you think is so super rad and somebody whose journey you've been, like privileged to be part of. So this is like a real, a real treat a real treat. Can I speak? A real treat!

Emily Carter  03:01

Thank you so much. Like you said, I'm in your your community. And I think you're a brilliant copywriter. It's why I'm part of your community, I really enjoy the way that you teach your genius to business owners and entrepreneurs. And that's part of what I'm super stoked to talk about in detail with you. But first, I really want to ask you something that I've always thought a lot about, I'm a little obsessed about time and work and how we do these things. And building a business I think is hard freaking work. You know, some folks are gonna disagree with that. And I'm going to know, let's make space for those different opinions and experiences. But I still think that hard work has to happen to be successful, right. But I also think that hustle culture has been kind of damaging, and in order to be successful, you know, whatever our hustle is, it has to be sustainable. What are some lessons that you can share with us that you've learned as you've been growing your business?

Marisa Corcoran  04:00

Such a good question.

Marisa Corcoran  04:03

First of all, it's so true, it is hard to run a business. And I think that that's a little bit of the kind of lie we've been sold. And I'm not saying it's anybody's fault in particular. But I think that there's this idea that's like, Oh, if you do this 5678 staff, I come from the dancer, all the little choreography, like you will have this million dollar business. And it's not it can be true, but it's not true for everyone. It's not taking into account people's lived experiences, and what people actually want from their business. Like if we could just slow down. So for me, I was somebody who really wanted that and I could really base it in some real things that were happening in our lives. My husband and I. So this was my plan B I was an actor before and this is my plan B and there could be no plan C for me. When we dove into this and I still am I am the sole financial provider. For my family, my husband's talents are better suited and taking care of our family, he's found such joy takes care of the finances for the business. But that put this that there is no plan C. So I had to have a little bit of that like concentrated hustle and make a certain amount of money to really shift the paradigm of what I experienced in my family make, like real changes for my husband and I. But that's not right for everybody. Not everybody is the sole financial provider, or that might not make sense to them. We don't have kids right now, right? So there's people or parents, or your own lived experience, or things that you have to do that. Why is it vital to have to be so focused on this number, so actually, in my mastermind limelight, so is the type of competencies at which you're a part of and then we have our mastermind limelight, where we're really helping people step into those like next level visibility strategies. I think people would be really surprised to see that the income goals of the people that are in limelight, run the gamut. There's no, it doesn't matter. We're really asking strategic questions about what you need. So we have one of our live lighters in there right now, who just signed a $65,000 contract with a company if she signed one more of those. And that sounds like a huge number. But I tell you, there's some very strategic things she did to get there that are not like, there's a concentrated hustle, but it's not like she was, you know, burnt out. If she was able to do one more of that. That's $130,000 a year. Why does she need to do more than that? Right. She also wants to devote to her kids, her husband her life, like why does it need to be more than that? And why do I as a mentor, whatever want to push her beyond that. And we have people that are lower than that we have people that so it's really hearing where people are? And I think the latest sustainability, actually Emily is to not be afraid to talk about money. Yeah, like, actually look at the numbers say what do I want to make, like drown out the other people, you might be someone like me, that's like, I wanted to make a million I just I felt that like ambition of like, if I'm not going to be a famous actor, okay, I'm gonna make a shift on one, you know, not everybody. So really being able the first one of the first things we do in limelight, we have this performance plan that we run everyone through. And the very first thing is we set the income goals, but there's strategic questions that we ask to help people find what it is. And I honestly, I don't care what it is. I just want to see people get to what's right for them sustainably and be able to do other things. I think it really just starts with talking about money more openly. Mm hmm. And just saying, Thank you. So the seven figure messages, but that might not be for me. Six Figure, it might not even be right for you. You could have I had one of our CCS alum, that basically makes about $75,000 a year doing what they absolutely love as a book coach. Yeah. Why why why not? What's wrong with that? Why isn't that like the most beautiful thing in the world? You know? Yeah. So that's kind of my roundabout way of that's how I look at it. I hope that's helpful.

Emily Carter  07:56

Yeah, you know, I really think that talking about numbers in this way, where we're talking about, what do we want that number to give us? Like, what's that number, right? That is so much more important than some arbitrary, large number that we might throw out. You know, and ultimately, what we're after, is what that number can allow us to do, what it can allow us to be, what it can allow us to experience. And if our number, if that number doesn't mean, if what we want doesn't take seven figures, then that's not necessarily something we need to strive for. Right?

Marisa Corcoran  08:31

No, and I think that's so true. We talk about in the Society and in Limelight, we talk about that skin in the game. Yeah. Like, what is that skin in the game? What's that personal skin in the game? Right? So the bigger world, we want to help the world that comes in, don't get me wrong, we talk a ton about giving back and really wanting to make an impact. But really looking at like, personally for you for your family. Like what do you want it to be? Like we had somebody who's part of the country competence society. This is a few years ago. And what she wanted to do was they lived in Texas, and she it's really hot there in the summer. And she wanted to be able to build like an inground pool for her kids. Yeah, that was the dream. That's what her money from her business was going to. That's a beautiful skin in the game. And then we can we can expand outwards, like how are we what's the impact we're making for other people, but having a really clear skin in the game and having fun with it. You know, just having fun with being able to kind of gamify it for yourself and see, what what good can I do with this income and this impact?

Emily Carter  09:31

Yes. And this also helps you to understand a little bit more about what you're willing to hustle for, like, what kind of hustle are you going to do to get that skin in the game? Right? Like, what is it that you're willing to trade off for in the interim? Because, you know, one of the things that I think makes business more sustainable is understanding that we have seasons in our business and we have seasons of our life. And all of that is changing all of the time and being able to recognize that and and know when to do that hustle is part of what I think that number and that skin in the game can help you get clear on.

Marisa Corcoran  10:11

Totally. I couldn't agree more. So we have seasons for us, like, February is a big like from now. So we're recording this in early January 2022 through the end of February, busy season for us, then again in the late summer into the fall, another busy season for us. But once October hits, I make it a point in my business I get into like that holiday spirit, like call me like a basic, you know, give me my Ugg boots and a pumpkin spice latte. You know, I don't sell after that. Yeah, I don't I spend, you know, time just nurturing the people that we have. And I don't that's that's just something that I've set up for me. So I'm not and I try to you know, a lot of people love doing like a black friday offer. And again, for some people that is beautiful. But that never i That wasn't getting me up in the morning. That wasn't jazzy. Me. So I was like, Why do I have to sell it this time? So we have the team knows these are our busy seasons. And then once October hits, we're just kind of like coasting through, like watching Hallmark movies, drinking hot cocoa drinking some old wine, you know? And in. That's not one of our like, concentrated hustle seasons. Yeah. Yeah, this is so good to hear. Because I think that when we're scrolling through social media, or watching those webinars, it can be really easy to assume that this is constantly this level of activity is constantly happening. And maybe for some folks it is some people really thrive on that hustle, and I'm not about to put them down. But a lot of us don't thrive that way. And recognizing that what we see isn't always the whole story, I think, is one of the biggest lessons that I've learned in the last two years, you know, 100%, and it really comes down. I mean, Emily, maybe you'll agree, is to just like, it's a So Fran Lebowitz had this really great documentary on Netflix, where she was, like, pretended to city, where she was just like joking about all the wild things that happened being in New Yorker and in New York City. And I was like, joking. And I took it from her like, pretend it's a business like this is your business. So actually sit down and plan which can bring up so much is why I so encourage people to be part of a community to talk this out. Because if you can talk out that money aspect, and actually plan out. And that's it. And here's the beautiful part, it doesn't even matter if you stick to it to a tee, that's the income or the plan. But just to have that skeletal structure, you have something to follow throughout. And that can be so powerful, as opposed to be like, What am I doing today? Or just like slapping stuff up. And I do think I have such a spontaneity in me. It's I really, I kind of thrive, flying by the seat of my pants. But the structure helps me so that flying by the seat of my pants is more out of fun and not out of like a desperation. Right? Just like business like, plan. You know, and it's like, it's obvious.

Emily Carter  13:01

So like, these things are foundational, right? So success in business isn't just about that hard work. Hard work is really important. But it's not the only tool. You know, I've been thinking about what those foundational pieces are a lot. And what I've landed on is that it's a lot less to do with tactics and more about the foundation that we're building on and as an accomplished business owner in your own right, what are some of the foundations that have been really important to you? And your success?

Marisa Corcoran  13:34

Oh, that's so good, Emily. Um, I would say the biggest thing for me. So it's kind of this thing, okay. I was away from social media for six weeks, as you know, yeah. I come back to social media. And everybody's talking about 2022 is the year of relationship based marketing. And I was like, Duh, hasn't it always been?! And I really think that that is my core foundation is relationships. So coming from the actor world I really looked at. Actually a great example of this is I love Rob Lowe's podcast called Literally and he was interviewing Patton Oswald was the great the voice of ratatouille. If you have no idea who he is, you will know Ratatouille, he is the voice of Ratatouille, also incredible comedian, one of my favorite movies, incredible actors, overall incredible human. And he played opposite Academy Award winner Charlize Theron, in this movie called young adults in Rob Lowe is asking like, how did you score this, and the short of the long is that Patton Oswald, and the director of the movie, I think I could be kind of telephoning this, but you'll get the point. They struck up a conversation at the dog park. They both have French Bulldogs. And that's how he ended up being asked to read and be part of this incredible movie, opposite Charlie's fair. And it's like it's really built on relationships. And I've tried to bring that To every aspect of the business from starting the copy, chat, everything I've done is really focused on creating those relationships with people knowing that that's going to pay off for me whether it's now or it's later. A lot of people focus on, like, gotta keep building my audience. And we do need to do that. We do need to do that. But I've really spent a ton of time like, maybe to a fault actually like to exchange like, I know things about like people, like just free members of the coffee chat, Facebook, I know stuff that I'm like, How do I know this? You know, because I've spent so much time nurturing the hell out of those people, and colleagues and people of mind just taking all of that kind of the way that work breeds work in the actor world through those relationships, and putting that at the center. I've never spent a dime on paid advertising. In the world of big email lists. I don't have a big email list about less than 10,000 people on my email list. The copy Jeff Facebook group yet has 6000 people, but that's small compared to like these like mega church, Facebook groups. And we've collectively made over a million dollars. We've given $70,000 to charity, and it's all rooted in relationships first.

Emily Carter  16:09

Yeah. I mean, this resonates so much with me, I think, in part, so my background is in entertainment as well. I was a roadie. So I toured with bands, and I did video work for them, it was really great. It was wonderful was an incredible experience, I learned a whole lot about relationship building, though, in a really short period of time. Because every day I was showing up at a new location with people I didn't know needing to make a connection with them, so that we could get this show going, right. So I'd show up, I'd get, you know, five or six stagehands, they wouldn't know me from anyone, I looked like I was 12, even though I was 25, you know, and, you know, being a woman in a primarily male dominated field, it was a little hard to get people to listen to me at first, until what I realized I was really doing was not building this projection screen, what I was really doing was relationship building, and building trust with the people that I was working with. And as soon as I realized that, everything got so much easier. And I feel like that lesson alone was worth all of the time that I spent in that role. Because, you know, fast forward to today, and what you said about knowing things about people in your group and and that being part of relationship building, it's huge. It's huge. I have what I call a Rolodex brain, it just remember random facts about people that, you know, allows me to help them, it allows me to give them resources, it allows me to introduce them to other people that might be helpful or interesting to them, and allows me to like, be helpful, you know, in a way that's really personalized, and really kind of natural, because as soon as you start talking about sales and all this other stuff, I start to get like anxious about that. But as soon as I drop into note, what I'm doing is relationship building, suddenly, it feels so much lighter and so much easier to make those human connections.

Marisa Corcoran  18:09

Oh, I couldn't agree more. You know, my husband always jokes with me, because he does the finances for the business. So if he has a question on like, someone's payment plan for the society, like he'll come in, and we have 140 people in the society, and he knows I'll know every single person. So he's like, Hey, who's this? I'm like, Oh, that's so and so. Oh, Hosanna said their payment plan is Oh, did you know they just had a baby? Oh, that's so and so did you know that they just had their like Summit. Oh, God just got their website done. Like, I just will know things and even just in our free community. Actually, this just happened yesterday. You know, I'm back on social media. I'm like, Hey, how's everyone doing? And one of our who's been a part of our community, one of our big listeners of the coffee chat was like, hey, great to see you back. And I hadn't spoken to them like in the groups I hadn't been around. I was like, Oh, how are you? How have you been? How's your family? I know she's really close to her parents. And she shared she's like, Oh my gosh, my dad actually passed away last year and I'm like sitting at my computer like oh my god I'm so sorry. I know how close you were to your parents. And like I really didn't know that because just being part of the coffee chat Facebook group, like I just knew that about this person and that has I put that at the forefront and even if people don't end up buying for me so this is I have been on this kick lately of people who are like they hate on you. I'm sure you've heard this people walk on I'm like, oh, there's freebie seekers. Right people hate on freebie seekers so all the stuff on my soapbox for a minute.

Emily Carter  19:26

I'm a devout freebie seeker. Like I love I love all the freebies. Go on.

Marisa Corcoran  19:31

Of course! And in a world where we can control what is considered high ticket for somebody low ticket for somebody else. We get so caught up in what should our prices be. And it's really like: price where you need, what's right for your world, not what you're worth or what's right for you. Let's go back to that skin in the game and the income. And the best way to do that feel really confident about that is to offer really great free quality content. So even if nobody ever ends up buying for me I know that from listening to the Copy Chat, being part of the Facebook group, they will get some key things that they can take away. So even if they never become part of the society, I've helped them in some way if that's what they're able to afford, or do write or make an investment in right now. And because of that, I hope that they will, what I call like the three hours that they will remember me, rave about me, and refer me to someone else. And so I've just been on that kick lately of people being like, "freebie seekers." And I'm like, Okay, let's just like reframe that, you know. And I just think that goes back to relationships, I really put that forward, I can't control if someone buys from me or not, at the end of the day, I can't. I can teach you all the copy tricks, and I'm really good at it. But at the end of the day, we don't have control over that. But we do have control over the relationship. And that's where all storytelling and all these beautiful copy things should do the selling before you even ever get to the selling.

Emily Carter  20:56

Yes, yes, music to my ears and my heart actually. So not to shift gears too hard. But I really want to get into the heart of how we came to be talking today because your expertise is copywriting. I am obsessed with copywriting. I have taken like half a dozen copywriting courses. So I love copywriting I love learning everything about it. And I'm trying really hard not to fangirl too much, because I just appreciate your approach to copy so much. Can you share that with us all so that we all the listeners can be on the same page with us when we're talking about the Copy Confidence Society and your approach to copywriting. And then I have some really juicy questions to follow up with.

Marisa Corcoran  21:37

Oh, cool. Well, can I ask you something?

Emily Carter 


Marisa Corcoran

What do you love about our approach so much? What did, if it's been different from other things that you've taken? What? What is it?

Emily Carter  21:51

your hot seats are the best. Just hands down. Oh, they're the best. Yeah, the hot seats are great, because in part because of the relationship building you've already done with folks, you know, people are hopping on your hot seat, but you're not starting at Ground Zero with them, you're actually somewhere in the middle with them in a relationship, like you know things about their business already. And not just because they filled out an application to be in the hot seat, you know, like you actually know them already. And can speak to history that they have with their business and in their copy and how you know, their background and how that's impacting their business. So from my perspective, I have learned the most from being just around the hot seat. I learned a lot by being in the hot seat, but I also take just as much from other people learning in that space.

Marisa Corcoran  22:45

Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool to hear. Thank you. And it I think that that is kind of for me, when I was a done for you copywriter. What I was finding was applying the rules of acting to copy was working for to explain it to my clients, but also for me to really capture their voice. And really think of the other person that's the reader. Or what we're doing here. This is so copy. There's different me people like oh, if I'm a horrible writer, I don't know how to do happy, okay, well, we can speak it. We can do lots of things with it. But um, was really making the reader like your scene partner. And when we were an acting school, and you get up on stage before you can even start the scene, our teachers, our people, it's my acting teacher say okay, what do you want from this other person? Like, what are we hoping that somebody will take away from reading this getting this? So having a strong intention? And then what are the different tactics we're going to use to get there? That's where storytelling and, and voice in the word closet and having your own kind of vibe and personality, and I started to see that really work beautifully for my done for you clients? And that's where I realized, Okay, what if I could apply this in a in a group level? Because what a lot of my clients were like, well, what if I didn't always have you, Marisa? How could I do this for myself? And I was feeling like there was lots of things for other copywriters and there was lots of really great programs, but it can get like copywriting is like, a, there's a science to it. I'll tell you right now, there's covers that are way better than me, like, beyond like, they know it all. They're like, you sit in the room, and they're just like, the like, the the nerdiest of them, like they know like the science of it. And that's so beautiful, but I knew for so many business owners, that's like, that's so overwhelming, and we don't need to. So how and I found that talking through through the lens of acting was really helping a business owner be able to tackle it for themselves. And that's like, I really believe that if you can know what to say and how to say it on your website, words, your emails all that is one of the most important skills you can have as a business owner. Like you're never not going to be talking to people. So it just helped make it more fun and I saw that People were able to actually implement it and see and see results.

Emily Carter  25:05

Yeah. And, you know, again, another thing that stands out about how you teach copy versus how I'd been taught previously. And like I said, it's maybe a little embarrassing how many copywriting courses I've taken before I found yours and started making some some more progress in my communication. But it's really how you encourage business owners to let their personality shine. And in fact, I think that that's where you have your students actually begin their copywriting journey with you. And why is that? Why is personality important? And why do you start there? Because I think a lot of other courses I've taken and with that, and and I think that that might be an important key as to why your version of teaching copywriting has resonated so much with me.

Marisa Corcoran  25:53

Yeah, you know, it's like RuPaul didn't RuPaul say like, if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love anybody else? It's kind of like, if one of the biggest things that we see online is that everybody often will, you know, if you scroll, you see people go, Well, this worked for somebody. So now I'm going to try it for me. And there's nothing wrong with that. Because we say, well, if that works for somebody, then it'll work for me. And we just start to get in a sea of sameness. And then people feel in competition with each other, because there's nothing that really differentiates them. And so I truly believe that if we start with us, and what actually makes us different, our personality aspects of that, and we really bring that to the table, and we're not mimicking someone else's voice, then there truly can be no such thing as competition, there can only be collaboration. And if you've, if this is for anybody who you feel like you're in a saturated market, which is for many of us, look around, people teach, copy all sorts of things. But when we can put our personality out there, that's going to let someone know, hey, that's the person I want to invest with, or that's not the person I want to invest with. And then I can feel really comfortable saying, Hey, you should go to this person's course or community, and I don't feel it, that's competition. I'm like, great, go find your person. And then it's just, it's easier to put stuff out into the world when you just approach it from you first, then as you've seen in the society, Emily, we then Pair that with the words and phrases of your ideal client to like make that kind of, you know, partnership between the two. Yeah, but if you're not starting with you, then it's just everything after that is going to just keep getting muddier and watered down until we're all just sounding the same with like rose gold balloons behind us. And there's like, nothing wrong with that. That's you, but you're not I mean, now suddenly, we all with the blazer, we're holding the coffee. Like it's just all the same. And that might not be you at all. And so why not give? You know, I always I always actually use my father in law as an example of this, like, my father in law is like, I know anything about pop culture, or anything like that. Like, like, from the North Country. Okay, New York State like, but my father in law loves two things. Okay, well, three things golf, duck hunting, and the weather. And it's like if there was somebody who showed up to a party or something that like knew anything about those three things, my father in law would be like clinging to my cork and would be obsessed with you, because you're like, he feels like he's found his person. And there are so many Mike Corcoran out there those that are looking for your like brand of specificity that you can show through your personality, even if you teach something that someone else teaches. But if you share that, you know, if let's say my father in law was looking for a new, like a lawn mower or something, and he struck up and the guy mentioned Ducks Unlimited, which is a magazine that he gets, by the way, he gets a magazine called Ducks Unlimited. Okay, I know that my father loved how you buy from that person, for somebody else. Because he'd be like, Oh, we have something or if they watch the weather channel as much as he does, he's always calling us to be like, how far are you from such and such, there's a tornado, they're just like, the more specific you can be with your personality, the more that you can create the community of the right people that you want to create.

Emily Carter  29:04

Right? And we're not even talking about like a community of all the same people, the people that gravitate to you are going to be folks who are resonating with the way that you're talking about the work that you do, which is a phenomenal way to have a phenomenal kind of magnetism to have, right? And also a really authentic and easy one to have, if you can figure out how to allow yourself to do that authentically. So and that's something this word authentic, I think it can be a really scary word for folks to try to incorporate into how they present their business because, you know, some of us are introverts, or some of us want to have some pretty precise boundaries around what we share and what we don't share. And so I want to talk a little bit about what keeps people from putting their personality out there. Specifically because because if we feel like we're weirdos who aren't into pop culture, how can we stay weird, but also be relatable?

Marisa Corcoran  30:06

Totally? Well, first of all, there's like billions of people in the world. You know, so there's, there are, there's somebody for everyone, there's for everyone. And I think we need more of those pockets. And I think where people get tripped up, and this is why we start there with this society, we have like the five copy stars to choose from, or that you can create a combo, you can create a triplet, I don't, you can create whatever company you want. The idea is to really create something that's authentic to you to have like a voice guide that's authentic to you. And as you know, we have the five to choose from the hooker with a heart of gold, the relentless cheerleader, the nerdtastic leader, the quirky misfit and the Wonder Woman. And my point there is that what sometimes happens is that people will look at authenticity or magnetism, you use that word. And people will think that that means you have to be what we see a lot of people do, which is kind of be loud and outgoing and outrageous and share. And so people think, well, that's not me, my I'm pretty boring. This is what happens. People think that they're boring. And here's the thing, I encourage you to take boring for a test drive. Because the boring is the stuff that actually feels truly relatable. So I was teaching this master classes a few months ago now. And I was teaching the copy stars as my friend. When my two friends that CO teacher was in, they asked me to guess teach. And in one of the hot seats, I was kind of explaining this concept, and this woman does kind of manifestation coaching. And she was like, Okay, well, and I was like, Well, what are you? What do you like, you know, do on the weekends? Like what are you up to? She's like, Oh, well, um, I like ride motorcycles, Michael, you ride motorcycles? She's like, Yeah, so she starts telling me how she rides motorcycles. And she like, loves her garden and all these things. And we just came up with well, what if you're, like showing a little bit more of that side of you and loving the motorcycles and like your, that's going to be way different than another manifestation coach who's like, you know, sitting, you know, in kind of like a, you know, across pose, and just, that's your and somebody is going to be drawn to that. But I think what stops people is they, they think that they're boring. So I asked you to really actually lean into the boring parts of you. Because, yes, do people like to hear my story of being an actor? Or my student loan story? Yes. But the things that I get the most responses to, Are these like slice of life, like micro moments like me getting Guitar Hero for Christmas? I'm still answering the emails from that or talking about my grandpa or my dog like, or how much I love to read like these little moments, I encourage you to ask yourself, Where can we find you on a Saturday morning? Where what what are the things that you like to do outside of work, like take boring for a test drive, that's where your authenticity is likely living? You don't have to put on some big magnetism or big like origin story that you've seen other people do if that's not true for you?

Emily Carter  33:05

Yeah, it's beautiful. Because it can be so hard to feel like you're the awkward weirdo on the internet. Yeah,

Marisa Corcoran  33:15

yeah. And that's why we have one of our that's why we have the copy stars where I think people really settle into that with the relentless cheerleader, we see that a little bit in the nerd tested leader and a lot in the quirky misfit. And so that's why I want people to see that not everybody has to be the hooker with a heart of gold or the Wonder Woman. Or if you want to lean into that a little bit more, and you want to test it out, you can kind of create your combo to just lean into that a little bit more. But first, starting with your own strengths first, even if they feel totally mundane and boring. I promise you I have enough people under my belt that this has been successful, take boring for a test drive.

Emily Carter  33:50

I love that I'm going to write that one down, take boring for a test drive. So you know, and in some of in talking about personality, it kind of reminds me a bit of bringing core values into business. Right? So you mentioned Wonder Woman, so it's really easy to think how Wonder Woman might be bringing values into their business or something like that. But you know, one of the things I have really admired about your work is actually your commitment to giving back and how that generosity actually permeates so much of your business. So can we talk about that? And because it seems to me that you've spent time working on those values, and actually mixing them into how you do business? Am I right about that, and what has that meant for your business?

Marisa Corcoran  34:37

Hmm. You know, I would actually say that it's something that we now have created like a system for now put concrete like into this stone, but it's actually something that so you know, if you have your family and you have traditions, you know, if you were a kid and you had like cranberry sauce at Thanksgiving, it's like As you get older that you're going to have that your Thanksgiving, or if your parents were like, oh, Santa Claus is coming, it's likely you'll be that way with your kids or the opposite. Like my cousin Crystal was saying she didn't really grow up with like Santa Claus stuff. So she doesn't really do it with her kids, right? Like, yeah, you take the traditions with you. And I really feel that this generosity was instilled in me from a really it's a tradition. My mother ran a senior center called the IDA Benderson. Center in downtown Syracuse, New York. But it wasn't a typical Senior Center what we might think of our typical grandparents like playing bingo. These were senior citizens who really they were veterans of World War Two in the Korean War. They were senior citizens that struggled with addiction, homelessness. That's what I grew up in. Like, that's what I grew up around. And I grew up watching, you know, I'll never forget one day my mom like didn't come pick me up from school. And I'm like, waiting outside. I think I was with my I don't think I was with my principal Mrs. Lisi. But I was with somebody like maybe Mrs. LaMacchia, like somebody I can't remember. And my mom, like just didn't show up. And there's before cell phones, this is like the midnight race. So where is my mom, and she was late on my grandparents come to get me but my mom was taking this guy at the center who had gangrene up to the VA hospital, she was like driving him in her car up to the VA hospital to get treatment for his gangrene. Like, that's my mom, like, in a nutshell. So that's what I was just like inundated with was that was a family tradition. So it really was instilled in me that we had to give back, we had to like use our kind of time on this planet to do that. So I just started incorporating that into the coffee chat into the business. And really last year, with the help for my own coach, we kind of set down and put that into like, five kind of core values where generosity is one of the top ones. But we were really just kind of summarizing what we've been doing for a few years now. And so now there's a system, but it really just came from what I learned from my mom. And just using that using our business to give back and I think people think you have to be like, making all this money, seven figures, all this to be able to get back but you can give back and such at all levels. Yes. One of our Copy Confidence Society rockstars. Today, Chantal was just sharing with us the case study with her that she started this feedback to give back. So everybody you did like an ICA interview with her on Module Three that we do in this Society. She donated $5 to this organization for, like homeless women to get like these personal hygiene products over the holidays. And she was able to pay for 10 women to do that. That's like it. So people think if I can't donate big amounts of money, I can't make change. But we're living in this like, really wild are we post COVID? Like what's going on? We're so many organizations, they're not having their in person gala's they've lost those ways where they're relying on this money. So we think like, Oh, if you know, I had one of my summit people that was able to donate $2,000 through her Summit. I mean, if if 1000 people, I think I'm right about this, like, raise $2,000, which I'm going to tell you, it's not hard to it's not that hard to do. But give me a reason, like $2 million. Yes, like, real change. So we can do that in small and big ways. And it's just something that I wanted to put at, I just wanted to see if we could, yeah, and then the first time it happened, and we raised $10,000 for the headstrong project for mental health care for vets. I was like shit, this works. And the average price of the kit for the copycat was $27. And we raised over $10,000 for the headstrong project.

Emily Carter  38:47

Yeah, see the generosity comes through your philanthropy, and it also filters into other areas of what you do. So I mentioned the hot seats earlier, part of what I think makes those so incredible is the the generosity you have with sharing your expertise and the time that you put into it. Because listen, those hot seats have I think every single one went over time. So, you know, I know, and

Marisa Corcoran  39:18

They did, and I'm just like, You know what, let's hang out. Let's get let's

Emily Carter  39:21

Yeah, you know, and that kind of generosity, I think also comes through that now. You know, I when I think about how we can incorporate our values, you know, you summed it up really well.


Marisa Corcoran

Well, this is this is like a family tradition. This is something that's always been with me.


Emily Carter

And in fact, one of the things that I love about how you're talking about this is that if you only just recently kind of codified these into your business, it means that these things were operating your business whether or not you defined them, being intentional with them might mean that you can do more with them and and weave them into your business as a way of like making it even easier. to have the kind of impact that you want to have with your business. So I just love hearing that. Because so often I think people are overwhelmed by the process. But chances are those things are operating anyway, you know?

Marisa Corcoran  40:13

Yeah. And really just digging into what are some of those things like we looked, and we kind of came up with words. And I learned this from the incredible Dallas Traver, she taught me this like putting it into the five words, which was generosity. And then what you talked about, like connection is really, that everybody in the society feels like connected to this thread. Yeah, and depth is one of our words, too. And I think that speaks to the hot seats, and that we're just like, I really, we really make it a point for all of us to know what's going on for everybody. Um, and then humor humor is a big one for us. And the final one is applause, which is that I mean, I'm an actor my my core AMA, I love the spotlight the limelight. So I my other program was called limelight, and just making it a point of how can we applaud each other the team? If you get that website out into the world and the copy confident society? Like how can how can we keep celebrating you? So we really just looked back and was like, Okay, what are what are the things that light me up that we've been doing? And what are the things that like, irked me, and one of the things I was saying is like, whenever you get in an elevator with somebody or something, and you say to the person, Hi, how are you? And they just go Hi, and they don't ask you how you are back. It's like my biggest pet peeve. And it's when Dallas was like, okay, so connect, I'm getting connection depth, and I'm like, Yes, depth, depth. And I really feel because I watched my mother do that. I watched my mother treat the somebody that you know, maybe like a prominent figure in Syracuse that she had to do it the same way she treated. This man she took to the VA or this guy named Elmer who lived on the he lived to this place called the Oxford in but he also kind of lived on the street. So when I was a kid, my mother washed his clothes and washed his blankets. And there was a picture of Elmer in our house. And I watched my mom treat people that same way. And that's just really what I wanted to, to do to be able to hopefully do that. I don't know if I can do it as my mom's pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily Carter  42:16

I just that's such a, it's brilliant to hear your process for incorporating that, after the fact. You know, one of the things that I find has been really helpful and, and helped me to make a lot of decisions is actually to use those values and in decision making for my business. So you won't find my values plastered all over my website yet, you won't, you won't hear me talking about them a whole lot as part of my my business. But in using it as a decision making filter, it's gotten a lot easier to figure out. Who do I want to influence me? Right? Like, who do I want to be listening to? How do I want to have influence? And what are the ways in which I can do that really intentionally. I like this word intentional, it's come up a couple of times in our conversation. So I wonder when you're when in your business, what are some of the things that you make sure you do intentionally?

Marisa Corcoran  43:19

Oh, gosh, this is so good. What do I do intentionally? I think, really nurturing people. I've really tried to make it a point that if you reach out to me, like my, the emails still go to me, I still personally respond to every email that we get back from our regular emails that we send out. That's me responding back to people. So I really try to respond back to everybody. And or if I can't, we make those boundaries really clear in the society, which threads and where you'll see me show up. And I try to really be true, and consistent to that word, and really narrate the experience if it needs to change. So last year, Emily, you know, you were part of the society, my best friend when my best friends died unexpectedly in June, two months later, my grandfather died, like things had to get shifted. And that's where that connection and that depth comes in was just being honest about where I was at, and where we needed to shift and still make sure that people feel taken care of. And so a lot of times we really focus on selling and like getting people into our programs which we need to do, forgetting the kind of intentionality we need, once people are in, and we took a lot of time. In 2020, we worked with an online curriculum specialist named Cassie who just ran through every aspect of the society with me, so that I feel that intention from the time I'm selling to you and leave them wanting more masterclass and knowing that we can back it up all the way through the final module and final call in the society for every learning style and that you feel that intention something that we just did last round was instead of waiting till the end to have a survey we have Many surveys after every module, so we can see who's completing, we also ask you, what did you use to get support with this? And then we ask you what's going on in your business in your life? Yeah, so that's how I've know that people were pregnant or other people were doing like, because people were saying it in the survey. So it, it helps us have that connection to our people. Yeah. And then I think another thing is, intention is just, I try to just show up and have, like, fun if I can, you know, one of the things of why I took my social media break is I was starting to just like, listen too deep into the noise, and realizing like, wait a second, I come from an actor background, like, I gotta get back to that creativity. So like, I do these characters on my Instagram stories, like just bringing, again, bringing what my all of a sudden, I found myself dipping into the opposite of what I teach in the first module of the copy communist society, probably not to anybody, I don't think it was that apparent, but I could feel it. Yeah, but I started to just feel myself like can't wait, should like, and I just needed to get back to that into like, leading with the, with having fun.

Emily Carter  46:09

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's, it's actually really helpful to hear that you found yourself falling into a pattern that you knew wasn't one that you wanted to fall into, and that you purposely put brakes somewhere, push the brakes in order to get out of that, you know, I think so often, we feel like we have to lean into, you know, we, we get told, I think, to lean into discomfort. And sometimes that's a good thing to do. But sometimes, like, we're injured, or sometimes we're getting into territory that can be really detrimental or damaging to to ourselves, you know, when we're falling off of, of who we are really, and the the ways that we want to be showing up. I mean, that can be really damaging to to ourselves, and also, like really exhausting. So it's actually pretty affirming to hear you say that you noticed that and that you had to you had to figure out how to make that. How to transition outside of that.

Marisa Corcoran  47:15

Yeah. And you know, I got this dish for my husband like a few years ago, like to put his rings and stuff in. There's a lot of rings, he's like, it's like a Justin Theroux when he wears more rings than Justin Theroux. He's got to get going. And I got in this little dish to put it in. It says, you know, everything that you want in life happens outside of your comfort zone. And often I look at it and I'm like, Yeah, but does it? Because I think that there's a lot like you said, sometimes that discomfort. So there are things we have to do. Like Listen, in the world that we're living in, like, if you want to be online, we got to get visible. Now, there's so many ways to be visible, you do not have to do reels. If you don't want to, you do not have to follow us. So you can do guest teaching, you'll be on podcast, but like, at some point, you're probably gonna have to go on camera and go on video. But what happens on that video, you get to decide what that is. And I realized, like, I love to do these characters like I come. I mean, I didn't I didn't have $170,000, you know, student loan from Harvard. If I wasn't going to use some of these, like fun characters. Yeah, that might not be everybody but fine. And I see that there's people online that I admire so much, who understand that they have to be visible, but take real control over what that looks like. Somebody that I really love that does as well as her name is Jereshia Hawk. Oh, yeah. Yeah, She's Instagram is a it's a chef's kiss, because she does what she she knows where she's visible. She knows her brand. Her theme. She's so real. But she takes control of what that video what that live is going to be doesn't fall into. I just and there's Pete and I just think there's so many people that are showing, yeah, there's things we have to do. Right? Like, there just are, but we can control. Like, we can turn off the fun factor of those a little bit more if we spend some time taking boring for a test drive, being able to figure out what those things are. And I think we find that there's more things in our comfort zone than we then we think, you know, that can work for our business.

Emily Carter  49:09

Yes, I love hearing that. Because it's kind of like you have all of these options. You have so many options as a business owner there are, I mean, just thinking of like how you do emails and which email client you use, there's hundreds of options, you know, and, and allowing ourselves to just like kind of say, Yes, I need to maybe I do need to send emails to a list. What does that look like for me and to the people that I want to be talking to and in relationship with, right? And suddenly, that decision and how you would want to show up becomes less uncomfortable? Even if writing email isn't your jam.

Marisa Corcoran  49:59

Exactly. So if it's like, listen, emails, you know, actually being away from social media, people were like, oh, did you feel like people, you know, and it's like, when I came back, I was laughing. I'm like, nobody cares that I'm back. Like, we have such worries of like, nobody cares. Nobody cares. That's the beauty. But I really didn't even feel like we lost the momentum. Because I had my email list. And I felt like my emails in December were, like, really tapping back into having fun, and that creativity, and it feels like coming alive. And I think that that's what's so beautiful about email is that, like, I didn't feel like I was losing out of the connection and the depth because I had, yeah, but in the society, I think you've seen this, Emily, there's so many different ways to, to do to do that, too. You know, for some people, maybe it's sending like putting video at the center of it, maybe it's audio and then sharing the transcript are the great Brenda McGowan, who helps us out inside of our programs, incredible copywriter, this is something that she's kind of been pioneering is doing, like the audio and having the transcript and there's so many ways that we can make email work. For us, we we have a whole module about this of storytelling and all these ways, my goal is for you to find what works for you, and try that out for a bit like, there's so much like, I just want people to just slow down for a minute. Like, if we can't we need data, because another thing that Dallas really taught me is if we have to look at data over drama. Yeah. And so we're not going to know you have to send these emails for a few months, we're not going to I'm not going to know I can't help I need I need numbers to go off of. And if we don't actually give ourselves a chance that people will put something out there and like nope, like I went back on social media. I'm not saying I'm like a big deal. I'm not a big deal. But you know, I mean, like, there are people in the coffee shop, we have people who like love our community, you know, we've helped a lot of people, I came back yesterday, like nobody cared that like that I was that I was back we get like, so caught up in it. And so but I know that there's so many people that if they would have done that, that would make them think that like, Oh, this isn't working. And I know that that's not true. Because different types of posts for different types of engagement. We talked about this in the society, different types of emails, and it's like, you got to let go of this like vanity stuff about it and actually give yourself time to analyze the right data.

Emily Carter  52:08

Mm hmm. Oh, see, you've brought up a really important point, I think. And that's the numbers that you're looking at, you have to know what they're telling you. Right. And not just because of the size, right? Like, I, I hear a lot of talk about how many followers you need, how big your email list needs to be in order to have a successful launch. But let's be clear, those are averages, those numbers that were being coached on, those are averages, they speak to an someone who does, they speak about someone who doesn't actually exist, because it's about averages. And you know, I'm a big fan of small, is beautiful. And the ways in which we can create our platforms to suit what it is we're really after small is beautiful, right? So it was big, big is beautiful. But really, we hear a lot about how big is beautiful. And I'd really love to talk a little bit about this idea of having a smaller platform and what that might, what potential that holds for us,

Marisa Corcoran  53:19

huh, it's so earlier in the conversation, I mentioned one of our live lighters who has the $65,000 This is the second time that she's done this, maybe the third because another yet she doesn't have an email us like Not at all. Yeah, this because again, there's like these circles of influence. And we're constantly told online a lot. Like we hear that, oh, we gotta like this big email, you need this. So we like try to start in the third circle. And with this particular person in limelight, what we recognized last year was wait a second, she had this first circle that didn't take a lot of like tech or creating a core, it was really just going to that first circle of influence with this really strong messaging, a strong kind of like referral like system of like, why she would be good for this. And she created it's called the leverage academy that helps middle managers kind of become their company's most valuable asset in a in a lot of companies where there's these incredible people that are really you know, in skilled labor and then forced into the kind of these leadership roles and they don't have that skill set. And this is what our lime lighter is so incredible app. And so again, this is somebody who has now made over $100,000 doing this and this year she makes does this with another company, that's $130,000 a year. That's small is beautiful. We're not even looking at expanding. Now if you are somebody who has an email list, and that's important, I'm always going to hop on email soapbox. But so we do want to keep growing our email list because you know, for example, I have about 20 people 2025 people on average who unsubscribe from every email that I send. Send Okay, yeah, so I have to keep replenishing it. Wait right we have to But I made it to about a half a million dollars. And I have like a four or 5000 person email. So now for some people, they'll be like, Whoa, that's that. I've had people in the coffee chat who have 75,000 people on your email list, right? Like, my email list is not big, even now we have less than 10,000. Because I really keep it scrubbed. I'm I like to see those open rates look good. I like to see the clip I like to like have that small is beautiful. And we've collectively made over a million dollars. Now for some people that might feel really, like big. But it's it's not compared to other things. And I've seen people that I've supported with their summits, grow their list to 1000 1500 and have a beautiful 55 $60,000 launch. And now you can repeat that again and again and again. Right. So actually focusing back on what we said in the beginning, Emily of just like, relationships. And averages are I do I do feel bad, because sometimes I do see you as like, well, I want to launch this course. And it's like, okay, we don't there's this a lot of things that have to be in place, and it's not your fault, because everybody's telling everybody you can have a cause like I don't I'm like Kenya, right, Kenya. So it's, there are some averages we do need to look at, they're not like pulled from pie in the sky. And that's just like it, there's so many beautiful ways that we can grow back to that intentional business. Without maybe you don't want to be somebody you have to have this team and this overhead and keeping track, maybe there's like, more smaller, beautiful ways that you can do that. And if you do want to grow the course, just being really honest about the data and the numbers that you do need, and how you're going to get there in a way that that feels that feels good.

Emily Carter  56:36

Yes. Because one of the things, you know, yeah, going back to that first question really about, you know, hustle, and and what we've been told, needs to happen, you know, like, do more and do it faster. Success is a limited resource, or competition is the name of the game. Right? You know, I really I have strong feelings about competition versus collaboration, and I will choose collaboration every time. I just think it's more powerful.

Marisa Corcoran  57:09

Always. Yeah. And I remember when I started doing it for the copy, Jack, people would kind of look at me on Zoom, like, what's your end game here? And I was like, nothing I really, like, want to shout you out. And I think you're awesome. And like, you know, it's it's hard for people at first to like, but I feel like that's what I love. I love teaching people how to do summits in this way. Because I think it's, it's, it really can change. And I know we were just tagged together in a post today, Emily, a friend of ours was talking about this summits are done really shittily. But there's such a game changing tool when they're done, right. It's what my business is built on. And I really am trying to lean in this year of really speaking more into that now that I feel like the society is really like satin beautiful, of just really looking at how we can help people create these relationship based kind of marketing events, with really focusing on those relationships over anything else. Because you've seen from OSI Emily's over knocking, it's never not going to grow your list. True, it will grow out of it and not so but like there's better like ways that can ricochet work can breed work. You know, I remember the first year I did the copy chat Hosanna our incredible client success manager my right hand like I can't even call her an assistant. She's like, way more than that. She added up at the end of the year, like our first year when I turned around, I was like, Holy shit, what happened? I went from making $50,000 to 250,000. What happened to our lives? It was I was like, did you know you were featured in 33 Different places this year, and you never pitched yourself to one of them. That was all from the coffee chat of people being on and be like, Hey, would you want to come and guest teach? Or do you want to be on my podcast and it's just put the relationships forward? Don't I used to have this incredible acting teacher named Jen Waldman. And she would always make us say, I practice my craft every day without judgment without expectation. So that when opportunity comes, I am ready. And I feel the same way just like practicing relationship building, like letting go and when the opportunity comes, you're ready for it because you're doing all the right things in the back in in the background, and it sounds kind of like Kumbaya, but it really it works. It really works.

Emily Carter  59:16

It does. You know, I my second summit looked very different from my first one. And in fact, I completely shifted gears midway through my first one because I just didn't like the map I was given. I was like, I don't like this map. It doesn't feel good. Yeah. What did you like about it? You know, there were there were a lot of things on there that I just thought, you know, but that doesn't, that's a that's a dumb metric. It was like, you know, you have to have so many people on your email lists, labels, and it was a really high number. It was 5k. And I was like, that's a really big number.

Marisa Corcoran  59:54

A big number and it's looking strategically at what do you want this thumbnail to do for you? Like yes It's gonna need to grow your list, right? So if you do it strategically, like the way that we teach it, you can look at adding about 500 to 2000 new people. Yeah, the reason why it's not. And people go, Oh, I want to have more, I'm like, Well, hey, you don't need more, right and be the second thing about the summit is relationships. So we don't want to sacrifice the list growth for the relationships, because people will remember how you treated them. Yeah. And the goal is not to just to do one is to do more. So we want to keep it like manageable. And you can do a lot with 500 new people on your list. This happened just happened. One of our line liners per open rates, skyrocketed, responses, everything, because the summit, like rejuvenated her community. So wasn't even so much about the list build as much as it just like, positioned her somebody's like, Whoa, I need to pay attention to this person. Yeah. And the third metric, and this is perhaps the most important is that we need to be building we need I always mess this up. I'm so bad at saying this, but like a rising tide lifts all boats. And if you are really focused, and this is something that I've been trying to make a priority in my business, I fucked up many times. But it's really a priority for me, is really showcasing a diverse and inclusive experts. And I want for people to see that we can't wait for the rooms to open. Like, let's create the room where it happens. Yeah, so to do that you need to be bringing in people of color, LGBTQ plus community, people with disabilities, both seen and unseen. Here, it's just the raw can truth. Yep. A lot of marginalized communities do not have don't have those numbers, because they're less tan. They're more talented than me. I'll tell you that. But they just haven't had those opportunities. They that Sir, I've lived a privileged life. So yes, we do need some help. We're getting into like summit metrics are yes, you do need. You do need some big numbers. So that so the way that we teach it is like a three bucket rule. Yeah, do need to be hitters to make up for the list builds, then you need there's another thing that we look at. And the third is that we need to make a commitment that 50% or more of this of these speakers are going to represent these marginalized communities so that people can actually see themselves and we start to build the community, which is why when people say they won't share for a summit that are heavy hitters,

Emily Carter  1:02:15

I get really mad girl, oh, my gosh,

Marisa Corcoran  1:02:18

If you care about diversity and inclusion. If you're not people hold their email list hostage for no reason at all. They are big people or they're big people. They're adults, they can handle it.

Emily Carter  1:02:29

Preach! Listen, this is exactly what I realized, when I did the review of my first summit. So I've done two summits now. And the second one, I feel was wildly more successful in party because that yeah, in part because of these buckets that you talked about, I was like, You know what, I have got to do this next one differently, I have got to get more focused on what actually matters to me. Because if I create from that space, no matter what I create, is going to be great, right? 

Marisa Corcoran  1:02:59

Beautiful. People raved about it!

Emily Carter  1:03:03

It was so good. I felt like it was like redemption, because I feel like that first summit, I was just learning the ropes and I was doing all of this stuff, I was given this roadmap to follow. Now listen, sometimes that roadmap is going to work for somebody, it wasn't working for me. Like it made me feel really inauthentic and made me feel kind of gross, because it wasn't aligned with who I am as a business owner, and what I want to promote through my business and the impact that I would have in all those things, you know, like all of that stuff is connected. And, and so I vowed like, I would never do a summit that way, again, like I would hold fast to the things that are really important. And the kind of things that I want the world to look like, I really do feel so strongly that our businesses are tools for personal freedom, but they're also tools for influence. And we create the world around us through our business. And in fact, it's amplified in some really tremendous ways through being a business owner, because we aren't just impacting ourselves and our family. We're also having this influence on everyone that touches our business, those speakers that trust me with their interview that I'm going to do right by the information and expertise that they share and represent them well. The audience that shows up who really needs to spend their time well, because we're just inundated with information, right? All the way down the line to everyone that touches those folks, you know, like their audiences. So I mean, to me, this is like a massively collaborative and creative process and when you stack the deck in favor of the things that you know, are important. I feel like that's, that's the best way to create that's the place of authentic creation and creativity and really only good things come from that place, even if the numbers don't look the same. You know,

Marisa Corcoran  1:05:01

going back to the smallest beautiful. Yeah. And there's so many other things that ricochet. We've had seasons of the Copy Chat where we've had 4500 people sign up. We've had seasons of the Copy Chat where we've had 1800 people sign up. Yeah. And that's one part of the equation, but it's not all of the parts of the equation. I think that's what, and that's what's really important to Yeah, to find out. And like we said, at the top really putting relationships at the forefront. Mm hmm.

Emily Carter  1:05:34

Yes. Marissa, I know that we're coming up on the end of our time here. I'm so thrilled that we got to talk about summits a little bit because that has been like, Man, I have been thinking hard about how summit has been done recently. And some of the things that I know folks are being taught to do that, that I really think that Summit's can be a rising tide. And I know that you and I see eye to eye on that. So it's nice to connect with you on that. Yes,

Marisa Corcoran  1:06:03

I'm creating this like Jerry Maguire like manifesto on it in the spring, I'm gonna do this audio series on it, to really break down a little bit of what we talked about social and it's kind of the first time I've ever really talked about that aspect of it, like, out loud outside of my community. But yeah, it's something I'm really focusing on, like in the spring of this year, to really break down. Because so many people are looking to get their visibility off of social media and take more control of it. And I will like die on the cross at the summit. A Summit is the way to do it when it's done. Right. So it's really fun to talk about that with somebody else who gets it too.

Emily Carter  1:06:39

Yeah. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the spring, then. Yeah, Marisa, thank you so much for your time today, before I let you go, can you please share with us where we can find you and connect with you? So folks who are listening, if they've really resonated with you? Where can they come and get more of your wisdom? 

Marisa Corcoran  1:06:59

Oh, that's so good. The best place is the coffee chat Facebook group, just search for it on Facebook. It's our free community. I go live in there every Wednesday, we invite people to come in and speak. We talk about everything from you know, you can ask your copy questions in there too. Like, what's everyone watching on TV and like, that's like, we're really just sharing and being spontaneous. That's the perfect place to get started and give you a feel for our community. And what we do and when you join in there, it'll also ask you if you want to grab our awesome 50 Plus scroll stopping subject lines that we use that help your emails, get opened and read and all these awesome stories. So that'll prompt you when you come over to the Copy Chat Facebook group, but you can say yes, or no when you pop over there.

Emily Carter  1:07:39

Awesome. Marisa, thank you again, so much for for sharing your expertise and your wisdom with us today.

Marisa Corcoran  1:07:47

Oh, thanks, Emily. It's so great to be here. And just great to like I said at the top to be part of your journey. I just think you're so awesome. And I just appreciate the trust that you've put in to us, the team and being part of the society. I just love having you part of it. So thank you.

Emily Carter  1:08:00

Thank you.



Hey there one more thing. If you're looking to get your copy done and dusted, I recommend getting in on one of Maurices masterclasses this month inside the leave them wanting more masterclass, you'll actually get to dig deep into exactly how to share your message. So you're not just the best choice, you're the only choice. The link to sign up is in the show notes for this episode. And because transparency is super important to me. Full disclosure, I'm not an affiliate from research programs, but if you sign up for the webinar, you might help me earn a one to one session with Marissa that's not why I'm sharing Reese's masterclass with you. I'm sharing it because it's hands down the best copywriting masterclass I've ever attended. And as you've heard me say, I've taken a lot of copywriting classes. I took six copywriting classes so that you could only take one I've taken all the challenges the webinars name a copywriting program, and it's possible I've done it. Maria says masterclass is free and her framework is going to help you if you feel like your copy isn't 100% where you want it to be. So hit up my website at WWW dot change agent dot studio slash podcast and get those details

Emily Carter  1:09:20

Hey, before you go, thank you so much for listening today. If you liked this episode, please share it. Leave a review wherever you listen and hit that subscribe button so we can keep the conversation going. If you want to dive even deeper into today's episode, just go to www dot change agent dot studio slash podcast and look for this episode's show notes.